1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,233 Welcome to live well with UCI Health. 2 00:00:02,233 --> 00:00:04,800 My name is Gina Grad with Alt 98.7 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:06,033 and iHeartRadio. 4 00:00:06,033 --> 00:00:06,900 We are here today 5 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,366 with two very special guests: 6 00:00:08,366 --> 00:00:09,733 Doctor Elsa Camarillo, 7 00:00:09,733 --> 00:00:10,333 a board- 8 00:00:10,333 --> 00:00:12,500 certified interventional pulmonologist, 9 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:13,600 and Doctor Kelly 10 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,500 Fairbairn, a board-certified 11 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:16,866 thoracic surgeon. 12 00:00:16,866 --> 00:00:18,700 Thank you both so much for being here. 13 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:19,933 Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. 14 00:00:19,933 --> 00:00:21,533 This is going to be very informative 15 00:00:21,533 --> 00:00:22,133 for all of us, 16 00:00:22,133 --> 00:00:23,800 and I'm just going to jump in 17 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,533 with the question 18 00:00:25,533 --> 00:00:26,533 that I'm just going to assume 19 00:00:26,533 --> 00:00:28,233 everybody wants to know. 20 00:00:28,233 --> 00:00:31,233 First of all, what is a thoracic surgeon? 21 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,166 A thoracic surgeon is somebody that 22 00:00:34,166 --> 00:00:36,433 specializes in operative interventions 23 00:00:36,433 --> 00:00:39,500 for lung cancer, lung infections, 24 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:41,033 esophageal cancer, 25 00:00:41,033 --> 00:00:42,500 any tumors in the chest, 26 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:43,466 things like that. 27 00:00:43,466 --> 00:00:46,366 So the thorax is a thing. 28 00:00:46,366 --> 00:00:47,000 The thorax is a thing. 29 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,000 Great I'm going to write that down. 30 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,166 And pulmonologists 31 00:00:50,166 --> 00:00:52,433 I assume has to do with the heart... 32 00:00:52,433 --> 00:00:53,900 the breathing. 33 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:55,900 Yes, more so the breathing. 34 00:00:55,900 --> 00:00:58,733 So I specialize in interventional pulmonology. 35 00:00:58,733 --> 00:01:01,033 So we do a lot of advanced 36 00:01:01,033 --> 00:01:02,833 procedures involving 37 00:01:02,833 --> 00:01:04,566 doing biopsies in the lung. 38 00:01:04,566 --> 00:01:05,300 So oftentimes 39 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:07,233 we see people that have lung nodules. 40 00:01:07,233 --> 00:01:08,533 And we determine 41 00:01:08,533 --> 00:01:10,133 if we can just keep monitoring that 42 00:01:10,133 --> 00:01:12,600 or if we need to go and do a biopsy. 43 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,233 How would someone even know 44 00:01:14,233 --> 00:01:15,800 that they may have lung nodules? 45 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:16,433 How would they even know 46 00:01:16,433 --> 00:01:17,700 to get checked for something like that? 47 00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:19,533 So, the majority of lung nodules 48 00:01:19,533 --> 00:01:21,800 are actually incidentally detected. 49 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,033 Usually they go in 50 00:01:23,033 --> 00:01:24,833 and get a scan for something else... 51 00:01:24,833 --> 00:01:25,333 Interesting, 52 00:01:25,333 --> 00:01:26,366 aAd then it just happens to 53 00:01:26,366 --> 00:01:27,233 show a lung nodule. 54 00:01:27,233 --> 00:01:29,200 So it's not, it's not like bronchial, 55 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,766 like I'm having a hard time breathing. 56 00:01:30,766 --> 00:01:31,800 I hear a crackling noise. 57 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,200 It's just one of those things. 58 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,433 Yeah, it's one of those things. Wow. 59 00:01:34,433 --> 00:01:35,433 Yeah. 60 00:01:35,433 --> 00:01:35,900 Okay. 61 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:36,166 Well, 62 00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:37,966 we have a lot of questions about vaping 63 00:01:37,966 --> 00:01:39,200 because it feels like 64 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,400 everybody's doing it. 65 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,166 I haven't seen someone 66 00:01:41,166 --> 00:01:42,833 with a cigarette in their hand 67 00:01:42,833 --> 00:01:44,500 in, like, two decades, 68 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:47,533 but I see everybody with an e-cigarette 69 00:01:47,533 --> 00:01:49,533 or a vape pen everywhere. 70 00:01:49,533 --> 00:01:51,633 So the very first question 71 00:01:51,633 --> 00:01:53,900 is, what is vaping? How, 72 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:55,133 how does it work? 73 00:01:55,133 --> 00:01:55,566 Yeah. 74 00:01:55,566 --> 00:01:57,933 So unlike conventional cigarettes 75 00:01:57,933 --> 00:02:00,533 where you're burning tobacco. Right. 76 00:02:00,533 --> 00:02:02,400 Vaping involves e-cigarettes. 77 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,900 So they're battery-operated cigarettes 78 00:02:04,900 --> 00:02:06,600 that burn a liquid, 79 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,533 and that liquid turns into a vapor, 80 00:02:08,533 --> 00:02:10,833 which is what you end up inhaling. Okay. 81 00:02:10,833 --> 00:02:11,833 So oftentimes 82 00:02:11,833 --> 00:02:13,633 because you're inhaling a vapor, 83 00:02:13,633 --> 00:02:14,933 it gives the illusion 84 00:02:14,933 --> 00:02:17,566 that it's not as... Dangerous. 85 00:02:17,566 --> 00:02:18,500 Dangerous. 86 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:21,033 But we really don't know that yet. 87 00:02:21,033 --> 00:02:21,333 Well, 88 00:02:21,333 --> 00:02:22,633 and that's the thing, it still does 89 00:02:22,633 --> 00:02:24,533 feel new enough where everyone's just, 90 00:02:24,533 --> 00:02:25,133 you know, 91 00:02:26,333 --> 00:02:27,800 really jumping on the ignorance train. 92 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:28,833 Like, it seems fine. 93 00:02:28,833 --> 00:02:30,400 It smells like cotton candy. 94 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,166 Like, how bad could it be? 95 00:02:32,166 --> 00:02:33,366 But the question is, 96 00:02:33,366 --> 00:02:34,900 what are they inhaling? 97 00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:35,833 Do we know? 98 00:02:35,833 --> 00:02:36,933 So we do know. 99 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:38,000 So the, 100 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,766 the liquid inside of the e-cigarettes 101 00:02:39,766 --> 00:02:41,533 contain a number of substances. 102 00:02:41,533 --> 00:02:43,966 They usually contain 103 00:02:43,966 --> 00:02:45,000 kind of whatever the drug is 104 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:45,766 that you're trying to get. 105 00:02:45,766 --> 00:02:46,133 So either 106 00:02:46,133 --> 00:02:48,133 nicotine or THC or exactly 107 00:02:48,133 --> 00:02:50,033 whatever you're trying to to inhale. 108 00:02:50,033 --> 00:02:51,733 And nothing else, right? 109 00:02:51,733 --> 00:02:54,400 It also has some kind of a solvent 110 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,933 like a glycol or something 111 00:02:55,933 --> 00:02:57,366 like that to dissolve everything. 112 00:02:57,366 --> 00:03:00,366 But there are other carcinogenic 113 00:03:00,433 --> 00:03:01,900 materials in there, 114 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:02,966 and it's also packaged 115 00:03:02,966 --> 00:03:04,800 very nicely in cotton, 116 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:05,200 like you said, 117 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,200 cotton candy flavor 118 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,000 or some kind of sugary flavor 119 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:08,966 to make them taste better. 120 00:03:08,966 --> 00:03:09,633 And that's the thing. 121 00:03:09,633 --> 00:03:10,500 I mean, the... 122 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:11,333 because I have, 123 00:03:11,333 --> 00:03:13,433 I work with a certain coworker 124 00:03:13,433 --> 00:03:14,166 who always has 125 00:03:14,166 --> 00:03:16,566 it plugged in at, at the table, 126 00:03:16,566 --> 00:03:19,166 and they look very sleek, 127 00:03:19,166 --> 00:03:22,033 and they're colorful and they smell good. 128 00:03:22,033 --> 00:03:23,633 And we are, 129 00:03:23,633 --> 00:03:25,300 I think we're conditioned to think, like, 130 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:27,200 this is the safe alternative 131 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,933 to smoking cigarettes, right? 132 00:03:28,933 --> 00:03:32,766 So, are e-cigarettes safer than smoking 133 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,933 like other tobacco products, 134 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:34,933 like cigarettes? 135 00:03:34,933 --> 00:03:35,600 Are they? 136 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,300 So in general, e-cigarettes 137 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:41,300 have less toxins and carcinogens 138 00:03:41,333 --> 00:03:43,400 than conventional cigarettes. 139 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,933 However, it's, 140 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:47,800 we don't know the long-term effects 141 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,200 from e-cigarettes yet, 142 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,966 which is the big concerning matter. 143 00:03:51,966 --> 00:03:54,200 And it's not even necessarily 144 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,100 the products that are within the liquid, 145 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:58,500 but it's when you burn that liquid, 146 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,500 all the byproducts that are produced. 147 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,533 So there's a lot of organic volatile 148 00:04:02,533 --> 00:04:04,900 compounds and a lot of other 149 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,200 toxins that are known 150 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,200 carcinogens to the lung. Okay. 151 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,566 So when we just look 152 00:04:10,566 --> 00:04:13,333 at the list on our own, we're like, 153 00:04:13,333 --> 00:04:14,433 maybe we can live with that, 154 00:04:14,433 --> 00:04:16,133 but we're turning it into something else 155 00:04:16,133 --> 00:04:17,866 when we're burning it is what you're saying. Exactly. 156 00:04:17,866 --> 00:04:18,766 Yeah. Okay. 157 00:04:18,766 --> 00:04:19,833 You're also burning 158 00:04:19,833 --> 00:04:21,366 the inside of the e-cigarette machine. 159 00:04:21,366 --> 00:04:22,033 So it's almost like 160 00:04:22,033 --> 00:04:23,366 putting plastic in a microwave, 161 00:04:23,366 --> 00:04:24,766 and you're getting all of the byproducts 162 00:04:24,766 --> 00:04:26,033 from the plastic e-cigarette 163 00:04:26,033 --> 00:04:27,500 as well as the metals on the inside. 164 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:28,766 Out of all of the thinking 165 00:04:28,766 --> 00:04:29,700 I have done about this 166 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:30,766 over the past few years, 167 00:04:30,766 --> 00:04:32,533 that has never occurred to me. 168 00:04:32,533 --> 00:04:36,100 So, with everything else we're inhaling, 169 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:37,933 we're also inhaling the 170 00:04:37,933 --> 00:04:39,366 the burnt plastic. Exactly. 171 00:04:39,366 --> 00:04:42,166 I literally never thought about that. 172 00:04:42,166 --> 00:04:42,800 Is it 173 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,633 true that each vape pen contains 174 00:04:44,633 --> 00:04:46,633 as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes? 175 00:04:46,633 --> 00:04:47,700 Or does it just matter 176 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:50,233 what vape you get or what? It does matter. 177 00:04:50,233 --> 00:04:51,033 Yeah, it does matter 178 00:04:51,033 --> 00:04:52,166 exactly what vape you get. 179 00:04:52,166 --> 00:04:53,800 They come in different concentrations. 180 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,900 A package of cigarettes has between 181 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:59,833 about 40, about 20 to 40mg of 182 00:05:01,566 --> 00:05:03,900 nicotine that actually hits your body. 183 00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:05,333 And depending on the concentration, 184 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:08,233 you can get up to 60mg in an e-vape pod. 185 00:05:08,233 --> 00:05:10,000 So it can actually even be higher 186 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,633 depending on the concentration. 187 00:05:11,633 --> 00:05:12,400 I just, 188 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,633 I can't imagine. 189 00:05:13,633 --> 00:05:14,233 I think I'm 190 00:05:14,233 --> 00:05:15,800 a very jumpy person by nature. 191 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,033 I don't even drink coffee. 192 00:05:17,033 --> 00:05:18,200 So if I hit that, 193 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,766 I mean, I would be in the hospital, 194 00:05:19,766 --> 00:05:20,533 like immediately. 195 00:05:20,533 --> 00:05:22,166 I don't know how one gets, 196 00:05:22,166 --> 00:05:23,400 not only gets used to that, 197 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:24,733 but like craves it. 198 00:05:24,733 --> 00:05:27,400 And I guess I'm just lucky to not know. 199 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:28,966 I think in addition to that, 200 00:05:28,966 --> 00:05:29,533 another thing 201 00:05:29,533 --> 00:05:30,366 that's very important 202 00:05:30,366 --> 00:05:32,166 is the rate that it hits your body. 203 00:05:32,166 --> 00:05:33,933 When you burn a cigarette, when you, 204 00:05:33,933 --> 00:05:35,800 when you combust the cigarette, 205 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,366 it hits your body very quickly, 206 00:05:37,366 --> 00:05:39,600 and it makes it very susceptible 207 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,366 to wanting to continue to get the high 208 00:05:41,366 --> 00:05:42,833 that you get from the nicotine. 209 00:05:42,833 --> 00:05:43,900 The first-generation 210 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,933 e-cigarettes were a much slower 211 00:05:45,933 --> 00:05:47,966 absorbing process, really, 212 00:05:47,966 --> 00:05:48,966 but the newer generation, 213 00:05:48,966 --> 00:05:49,966 kind of the modern-day 214 00:05:49,966 --> 00:05:52,933 e-cigarettes, are getting that same... Quick 215 00:05:52,933 --> 00:05:54,333 absorption. Exactly. 216 00:05:54,333 --> 00:05:55,966 And so you're getting the same high 217 00:05:55,966 --> 00:05:56,733 from an e-cigarette 218 00:05:56,733 --> 00:05:58,100 that you used to only be able 219 00:05:58,100 --> 00:05:59,800 to get from a cigarette. 220 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,833 So it literally is not, it's 221 00:06:02,833 --> 00:06:03,300 not like, 222 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:03,733 but you know, 223 00:06:03,733 --> 00:06:04,900 if you're trying to slow down, 224 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:06,200 I guess the e-cig is the way to go. 225 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,166 Those days are over. 226 00:06:07,166 --> 00:06:08,233 They figured out, 227 00:06:08,233 --> 00:06:09,000 they tweaked it 228 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,900 so you'd get the same high. Exactly. 229 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:12,600 Okay, I'm going to throw out a, 230 00:06:13,766 --> 00:06:15,166 a word or a 231 00:06:15,166 --> 00:06:16,166 combination of words 232 00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:18,233 that I have heard this referred to. 233 00:06:18,233 --> 00:06:19,300 If you have not, 234 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:20,400 it just means that you don't run 235 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,800 in the same insane circles as I do. 236 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,366 Have you heard of the phrase 237 00:06:24,366 --> 00:06:26,100 popcorn lung? 238 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:26,500 Yes. 239 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:27,500 Okay, so my, 240 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:28,900 friends didn't make that up? 241 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:29,400 No. Yes. 242 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,966 No, they did not. Is that a real thing? 243 00:06:30,966 --> 00:06:32,966 And does that happen with e-cigarettes? Yes. 244 00:06:32,966 --> 00:06:35,233 It is. It's unfortunately a real thing. 245 00:06:35,233 --> 00:06:36,600 Can you tell us what that is? 246 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:36,900 Yeah. 247 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:39,133 So those toxins and carcinogens, 248 00:06:39,133 --> 00:06:41,700 they break down your lungs' defenses. 249 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:43,933 And so it leads to recurrent infections. 250 00:06:43,933 --> 00:06:46,566 But it can also lead to fibrosis, 251 00:06:46,566 --> 00:06:48,300 scarring of your lungs. Okay. 252 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:49,933 And that's irreversible. 253 00:06:49,933 --> 00:06:52,166 And, unfortunately, the treatment for that, 254 00:06:52,166 --> 00:06:54,400 it's actually very treatment resistant. 255 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,166 What would the treatment even be? 256 00:06:56,166 --> 00:06:59,633 How would you try. Typically, if it progresses to the point where, 257 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:01,433 you know, you can't breathe anymore? 258 00:07:01,433 --> 00:07:02,200 A lot of times 259 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,300 the people need a lung transplant. 260 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:05,200 Wow. 261 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,233 And would this also come into, like, 262 00:07:07,233 --> 00:07:08,900 where, like maybe a tracheotomy 263 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:11,100 would happen or that's different. 264 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:12,166 Tracheostomy can happen 265 00:07:12,166 --> 00:07:14,566 for a lot of different reasons, 266 00:07:14,566 --> 00:07:16,200 but typically it's more, 267 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,933 it's a little separate. Okay. Yeah. 268 00:07:17,933 --> 00:07:19,966 And, like you said, it is irreversible. 269 00:07:19,966 --> 00:07:23,133 If you put it down tomorrow and pray 270 00:07:23,233 --> 00:07:24,233 to all of the gods 271 00:07:24,233 --> 00:07:25,033 and run around the block 272 00:07:25,033 --> 00:07:25,633 a thousand times, 273 00:07:25,633 --> 00:07:27,933 you're not going to reverse anything. No. 274 00:07:27,933 --> 00:07:29,033 Wow. Okay. 275 00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:31,233 Because that's the thing. 276 00:07:31,233 --> 00:07:32,700 The certain friend of mine 277 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:33,533 who has this, 278 00:07:33,533 --> 00:07:35,366 you know, attached to him at all times 279 00:07:35,366 --> 00:07:36,933 gets sick a lot. 280 00:07:36,933 --> 00:07:39,933 And, you know, the rest of us don't. 281 00:07:39,933 --> 00:07:41,700 So I'm not a doctor, 282 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:42,900 but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 283 00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:44,233 that those things might be related. 284 00:07:44,233 --> 00:07:44,533 Yeah. 285 00:07:44,533 --> 00:07:46,166 They've found that the mechanism 286 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:47,833 that the e-cigarettes affect 287 00:07:47,833 --> 00:07:49,966 your lung is very similar to the way 288 00:07:49,966 --> 00:07:51,933 COPD develops as well. 289 00:07:51,933 --> 00:07:54,533 Really? Oh my God, that's scary. 290 00:07:54,533 --> 00:07:56,000 So have e-cigarettes 291 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,900 been effective 292 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:58,566 at helping people quit smoking 293 00:07:58,566 --> 00:07:59,333 tobacco products? 294 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:01,333 Because everybody I know who smokes 295 00:08:01,333 --> 00:08:02,133 e-cigarettes does it 296 00:08:02,133 --> 00:08:03,766 because this was the their idea 297 00:08:03,766 --> 00:08:05,200 of a step-down program. 298 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,366 And, you know, they're just, 299 00:08:06,366 --> 00:08:07,166 they cab 300 00:08:07,166 --> 00:08:07,833 quit anytime they want. 301 00:08:07,833 --> 00:08:09,600 They just really like this step. 302 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,233 So how do we even look at that now? Yeah. 303 00:08:12,233 --> 00:08:13,400 So actually that was why 304 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,600 they were sort of introduced 305 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,566 into the public. Right. 306 00:08:16,566 --> 00:08:17,933 And there was a recent review 307 00:08:17,933 --> 00:08:19,200 with about 4000 patients 308 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,833 that actually did show that 309 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:22,133 it does help you quit. 310 00:08:22,133 --> 00:08:24,100 So, of patients 311 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:25,800 that go on e-cigarettes 312 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:26,366 versus, 313 00:08:26,366 --> 00:08:27,766 you know, the traditional products 314 00:08:27,766 --> 00:08:29,500 like the gum or the patch, 315 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:30,966 a higher percentage of patients 316 00:08:30,966 --> 00:08:32,600 actually do quit smoking. 317 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,333 But the problem is at one year, 318 00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:37,166 a higher percentage of those people 319 00:08:37,166 --> 00:08:37,966 are still using 320 00:08:37,966 --> 00:08:39,966 e-cigarettes than the people 321 00:08:39,966 --> 00:08:41,766 that were using the gum or the patch. 322 00:08:41,766 --> 00:08:42,900 And so they're not 323 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:44,566 getting the same amount of nicotine. 324 00:08:44,566 --> 00:08:46,500 And the e-cigarette people still are. 325 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:46,600 Yeah. 326 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,366 So they're just kind of 327 00:08:47,366 --> 00:08:48,966 stuck on that step. Correct. 328 00:08:48,966 --> 00:08:49,933 And the other thing 329 00:08:49,933 --> 00:08:52,933 I've seen people talk about is 330 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,166 just for the habit of doing something, 331 00:08:55,166 --> 00:08:55,533 and, you know, 332 00:08:55,533 --> 00:08:56,800 the oral fixation, 333 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:57,933 the e-cigarettes 334 00:08:57,933 --> 00:08:59,733 that have nothing in them. 335 00:08:59,733 --> 00:09:01,366 But it's the habit of, you know, 336 00:09:01,366 --> 00:09:02,700 taking the big inhale 337 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:04,066 and holding the thing in your hand. 338 00:09:04,066 --> 00:09:05,600 But now I can't stop thinking 339 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,833 about the burning plastic. Exactly. 340 00:09:07,833 --> 00:09:08,733 Yeah, exactly. 341 00:09:08,733 --> 00:09:10,333 So that's more of a concern now 342 00:09:10,333 --> 00:09:11,700 than I ever thought. 343 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:12,200 You're still 344 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,166 ingesting and inhaling 345 00:09:14,166 --> 00:09:15,400 all of those vapors, 346 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,566 and so you're still getting 347 00:09:16,566 --> 00:09:18,633 that same carcinogenic 348 00:09:18,633 --> 00:09:20,200 potentially inside. 349 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,333 Well, you know what one liar said to me? 350 00:09:22,333 --> 00:09:24,766 Somebody who really didn't want to quit? 351 00:09:24,766 --> 00:09:25,333 I said, you know, 352 00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:26,700 I don't know what's in it, but, 353 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:27,733 you know, it can't be good for you. 354 00:09:27,733 --> 00:09:28,966 And I always talk 355 00:09:28,966 --> 00:09:30,300 about how I'm constantly, 356 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:32,100 because I talk for a living – 357 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:34,100 and not for a living, it never stops – 358 00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:34,833 so I'm always, 359 00:09:34,833 --> 00:09:36,766 like, over a vaporizer 360 00:09:36,766 --> 00:09:38,633 or, you know, over a humidifier. 361 00:09:38,633 --> 00:09:39,366 And they go, 362 00:09:39,366 --> 00:09:40,166 well you do that all the time? 363 00:09:40,166 --> 00:09:41,100 What's the difference? 364 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:42,966 And I didn't have the answer at the time. 365 00:09:42,966 --> 00:09:43,900 I mean, mine's 366 00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:45,633 not full of nicotine and formaldehyde, 367 00:09:45,633 --> 00:09:49,100 I hope. Exactly. But otherwise, it's, it's, 368 00:09:49,333 --> 00:09:49,900 you know, people 369 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:50,766 convince themselves like, 370 00:09:50,766 --> 00:09:52,633 well, it's just inhaling vapor. 371 00:09:52,633 --> 00:09:53,000 I think 372 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,600 air and water vapor are very different 373 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,766 than what's inside of an e-cigarette. 374 00:09:56,766 --> 00:09:57,133 Thank you. 375 00:09:57,133 --> 00:09:58,833 That's what I'm going to tell them. 376 00:09:58,833 --> 00:10:02,133 So lung cancer is the leading cause of US 377 00:10:02,133 --> 00:10:03,400 cancer-related deaths. 378 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,433 Has vaping been linked to lung cancer 379 00:10:05,433 --> 00:10:06,566 or other lung diseases? 380 00:10:06,566 --> 00:10:07,566 Or are we not there yet? 381 00:10:07,566 --> 00:10:07,733 Like, 382 00:10:07,733 --> 00:10:09,200 do we not have enough information 383 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,566 to talk about that? 384 00:10:10,566 --> 00:10:11,133 So lung 385 00:10:11,133 --> 00:10:12,500 cancer is one of those things 386 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:14,300 that happen after long-term 387 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:15,533 use of cigarettes 388 00:10:15,533 --> 00:10:17,733 or long-term use of e-cigarettes... Right. 389 00:10:17,733 --> 00:10:18,733 Which w don't know yet. 390 00:10:18,733 --> 00:10:19,900 So it's a long-term effect 391 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:20,966 we don't yet know. 392 00:10:20,966 --> 00:10:21,833 And what would you consider 393 00:10:21,833 --> 00:10:22,600 a long-term effect? 394 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,300 How many years are we talking? 395 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:26,633 I would say if it's similar to cigarettes, 396 00:10:26,633 --> 00:10:28,400 it's usually we go by 20, 397 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,600 what we call 20 pack years. 398 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,300 So we don't even have that defined 399 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:32,833 at this point for e-cigarettes. 400 00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:33,800 And that's like almost a generation. 401 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,500 So we would have to wait for 402 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:36,200 kids to grow up 403 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,533 and just see what happens. 404 00:10:37,533 --> 00:10:38,766 Yeah, exactly. 405 00:10:38,766 --> 00:10:40,766 But are we seeing... 406 00:10:40,766 --> 00:10:42,100 But you could always kind of 407 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:42,733 I mean, you're, 408 00:10:42,733 --> 00:10:44,433 you're in the medical field 409 00:10:44,433 --> 00:10:45,433 and know way more than we do. 410 00:10:45,433 --> 00:10:46,533 I'm sure you can kind of always tell 411 00:10:46,533 --> 00:10:47,933 the way the wind is blowing. 412 00:10:47,933 --> 00:10:50,133 Would you imagine that this is 413 00:10:50,133 --> 00:10:51,400 this is going to cause 414 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,366 similar results as cigarettes or we just, 415 00:10:54,366 --> 00:10:55,333 we cannot say that, 416 00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:56,966 we just don't know? We just don't know. 417 00:10:56,966 --> 00:10:57,833 We don't know. 418 00:10:57,833 --> 00:10:58,333 We just, 419 00:10:58,333 --> 00:11:00,933 we do know it causes lung diseases. 420 00:11:00,933 --> 00:11:01,233 You know, 421 00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:02,566 like I mentioned earlier, 422 00:11:02,566 --> 00:11:04,500 it breaks down your lungs' defenses. 423 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:05,633 So it can lead to a lot of 424 00:11:05,633 --> 00:11:06,900 recurrent infections. 425 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:09,766 Bronchitis can lead to the popcorn lung. 426 00:11:09,766 --> 00:11:11,833 And then we all heard in 2019 427 00:11:11,833 --> 00:11:13,966 about the EVALI cases. 428 00:11:13,966 --> 00:11:16,300 Tell me. So, the acute 429 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:18,333 e-cigarette vaping lung injury. 430 00:11:18,333 --> 00:11:19,433 Oh. Yeah. 431 00:11:19,433 --> 00:11:20,800 So, in 2019 432 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,966 a lot of young adults 433 00:11:21,966 --> 00:11:23,300 were being hospitalized 434 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:24,700 because of that lung disease. 435 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,700 And it was linked to a certain product 436 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:29,700 that was in the e-cigarettes. 437 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:31,633 But there were still people at that time 438 00:11:31,633 --> 00:11:33,166 that, who used e-cigarettes, 439 00:11:33,166 --> 00:11:36,333 that didn't have that specific vitamin E 440 00:11:36,366 --> 00:11:37,133 acetate, 441 00:11:37,133 --> 00:11:39,766 who still developed this lung injury. 442 00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:41,233 While you were saying that, 443 00:11:41,233 --> 00:11:42,700 you know, bronchitis 444 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,166 kind of caught my attention 445 00:11:44,166 --> 00:11:45,133 because I think, like, 446 00:11:45,133 --> 00:11:45,833 you know, when you tell 447 00:11:45,833 --> 00:11:46,833 kids stuff, they're like, 448 00:11:46,833 --> 00:11:49,000 okay, old lady, like, whatever, 449 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:49,933 this doesn't affect me. 450 00:11:49,933 --> 00:11:50,700 I'm immortal. 451 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,833 I'm 14, and I'm trying to think like, 452 00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:53,833 what would I say? 453 00:11:53,833 --> 00:11:55,366 Because I have a young son 454 00:11:55,366 --> 00:11:56,733 who's almost at that age and, 455 00:11:56,733 --> 00:11:58,200 you know, his friends and all this stuff. 456 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,800 What would I say to a kid 457 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,300 to get them to actually 458 00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:02,133 stop and, like, 459 00:12:02,133 --> 00:12:03,200 think about something like this 460 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,133 because they all think, like, whatever. 461 00:12:05,133 --> 00:12:06,133 It tastes like cherry. 462 00:12:06,133 --> 00:12:07,766 Thanks anyway for your advice. 463 00:12:07,766 --> 00:12:09,366 But when you said, like, 464 00:12:09,366 --> 00:12:10,533 bronchial, like kids 465 00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:11,700 get sick all the time, 466 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:12,933 I think it would just probably have to 467 00:12:12,933 --> 00:12:14,933 show them a picture of a popcorn lung. 468 00:12:14,933 --> 00:12:15,400 But you know, 469 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:15,800 when you 470 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,433 when you give data and you give stats, 471 00:12:17,433 --> 00:12:18,366 you know, I'm, 472 00:12:18,366 --> 00:12:19,100 I'm taking them 473 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:20,233 in, but I'm just trying to think, 474 00:12:20,233 --> 00:12:22,900 how would you tell a young patient 475 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:26,133 if you, if, you know, maybe a daughter 476 00:12:26,133 --> 00:12:26,933 or a nephew 477 00:12:26,933 --> 00:12:29,166 or somebody was hanging out in your car 478 00:12:29,166 --> 00:12:30,633 and yanked one 479 00:12:30,633 --> 00:12:31,366 yanked out their e-cig, 480 00:12:31,366 --> 00:12:33,433 he said, what would you say? 481 00:12:33,433 --> 00:12:36,933 Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just 482 00:12:37,833 --> 00:12:38,900 informing them. 483 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:40,366 you know, knowledge is power. 484 00:12:40,366 --> 00:12:41,633 So letting them know 485 00:12:41,633 --> 00:12:42,833 the potential side effects, 486 00:12:42,833 --> 00:12:44,166 because they're young, 487 00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:45,733 they have so many more years 488 00:12:45,733 --> 00:12:46,566 of life left. 489 00:12:46,566 --> 00:12:48,566 And without us knowing what those long- 490 00:12:48,566 --> 00:12:51,566 term effects are, it's very scary, right? 491 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,766 It's, it's an unknown at this time. 492 00:12:53,766 --> 00:12:55,100 It's, it's so scary. 493 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:55,900 It's, 494 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:56,133 you know, 495 00:12:56,133 --> 00:12:56,433 it's like 496 00:12:56,433 --> 00:12:57,800 when you look at something from the past 497 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,833 and you can see the beginning, 498 00:12:58,833 --> 00:13:00,200 middle and end of that disease 499 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,100 and put it back on the shelf. 500 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:03,633 This is scary because, like you said, 501 00:13:03,633 --> 00:13:04,700 we're in the dark 502 00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:07,166 and we won't have that information 503 00:13:07,166 --> 00:13:08,200 until, unfortunately, 504 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:09,566 a lot of, a lot more people 505 00:13:09,566 --> 00:13:12,166 use it and get sick. Correct. It's scary. 506 00:13:12,166 --> 00:13:15,333 Now, e-cigs are the most commonly used 507 00:13:15,333 --> 00:13:16,833 tobacco product by high school, 508 00:13:16,833 --> 00:13:17,366 middle schoolers 509 00:13:17,366 --> 00:13:18,033 like we're talking about, 510 00:13:18,033 --> 00:13:19,800 especially the flavored ones. 511 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,766 So does vaping 512 00:13:21,766 --> 00:13:22,766 increase the risk 513 00:13:22,766 --> 00:13:23,766 of developing that stuff? 514 00:13:23,766 --> 00:13:25,200 Why are kids at greater 515 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,933 risk for the e-cigs than the adults? 516 00:13:27,933 --> 00:13:28,200 Is it 517 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,566 just because they have a longer, 518 00:13:30,566 --> 00:13:32,100 they have extra years to use it? 519 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:33,633 What are we talking about? 520 00:13:33,633 --> 00:13:35,333 I think it's kind of twofold. 521 00:13:35,333 --> 00:13:36,366 I think, one, 522 00:13:36,366 --> 00:13:38,533 nicotine is very, very highly addictive. 523 00:13:38,533 --> 00:13:40,366 It's one of the most addictive substances 524 00:13:40,366 --> 00:13:41,966 that there is. 525 00:13:41,966 --> 00:13:42,900 Then, like I said before, 526 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:43,600 we're packaging it 527 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,966 in a bright, shiny, flavorful... 528 00:13:47,366 --> 00:13:47,833 Unicorn sparkles. 529 00:13:47,833 --> 00:13:49,033 Unicorn sparkly, 530 00:13:49,033 --> 00:13:51,966 delicious sugary product. 531 00:13:51,966 --> 00:13:53,166 And we are marketing it 532 00:13:53,166 --> 00:13:54,033 to kids 533 00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:56,200 whose brains aren't fully developed. 534 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,100 And so they see this, 535 00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:59,733 and they don't make decisions 536 00:13:59,733 --> 00:14:01,300 the same way that adults do. 537 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:02,766 And so they get hooked 538 00:14:02,766 --> 00:14:04,700 earlier and earlier and they're kids 539 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:06,033 that maybe would have never picked up 540 00:14:06,033 --> 00:14:07,433 a cigarette in the first place. 541 00:14:07,433 --> 00:14:08,733 And so 542 00:14:08,733 --> 00:14:10,033 I think both the time 543 00:14:10,033 --> 00:14:13,033 and sort of the phase of their life. 544 00:14:13,033 --> 00:14:14,766 That makes sense. Yeah. 545 00:14:14,766 --> 00:14:16,100 It's estimated that about 1.6 546 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:17,600 million middle and high school 547 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,333 students are using vape pens. 548 00:14:19,333 --> 00:14:21,000 Are you serious? 549 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,966 Oh, my God, that's crazy. 550 00:14:22,966 --> 00:14:26,133 Yes, I was watching some random guy 551 00:14:26,133 --> 00:14:26,800 on Instagram 552 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,733 because who else is on Instagram 553 00:14:28,733 --> 00:14:29,766 but random guys? 554 00:14:29,766 --> 00:14:31,433 And I'm so glad I came across this 555 00:14:31,433 --> 00:14:33,033 because he was giving advice 556 00:14:33,033 --> 00:14:33,733 to younger people 557 00:14:33,733 --> 00:14:35,033 about how to say no to stuff. 558 00:14:35,033 --> 00:14:37,700 And I'm a grown woman, 559 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:38,366 and I was like, 560 00:14:38,366 --> 00:14:39,633 I'm taking this advice 561 00:14:39,633 --> 00:14:40,600 because I'm terrible at that. 562 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,800 You don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings. 563 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:42,633 You don't want to seem like 564 00:14:42,633 --> 00:14:43,900 you're not engaged with them. 565 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:45,633 And this is perfect 566 00:14:45,633 --> 00:14:46,366 for something like this, 567 00:14:46,366 --> 00:14:47,033 because he said, 568 00:14:47,033 --> 00:14:48,400 when someone offers you something, 569 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,000 don't waffle back and forth. 570 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,833 Just go, no, I'm good. 571 00:14:51,833 --> 00:14:53,100 Keep eye contact. 572 00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:55,400 And that, and that is a whole sentence. 573 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,200 That's great advice. 574 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,000 And I was so, 575 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,233 yeah, I was just like, that was easy. 576 00:14:58,233 --> 00:14:59,166 You don't have to break out 577 00:14:59,166 --> 00:15:00,500 your PowerPoint presentation 578 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:02,433 and lecture your friends and... or, 579 00:15:02,433 --> 00:15:02,633 you know, 580 00:15:02,633 --> 00:15:03,000 just hope 581 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,400 that they're going to stop asking. 582 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:05,300 So I'm going to tell 583 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:06,833 my son, just say no, I'm good. 584 00:15:06,833 --> 00:15:08,166 And then hopefully 585 00:15:08,166 --> 00:15:09,933 they'll leave him alone. Perfect. 586 00:15:09,933 --> 00:15:10,966 Because that's the thing. 587 00:15:10,966 --> 00:15:12,000 He's such a good kid 588 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,100 and he's such a rule follower. 589 00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:13,433 But like, 590 00:15:13,433 --> 00:15:14,166 what kid doesn't 591 00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:15,966 want to look cool to their friends? 592 00:15:15,966 --> 00:15:17,600 And I, we're so close to that 593 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,433 age, it terrifies me. 594 00:15:19,433 --> 00:15:22,400 So I think I know the answer to this, 595 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,300 but I'm just going to ask it anyway. 596 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:26,366 Do you think there's a need to 597 00:15:26,366 --> 00:15:27,933 further regulate e-cigarettes? 598 00:15:27,933 --> 00:15:29,333 Or you think we're just doing a bang- 599 00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:30,366 up job right now? 600 00:15:32,733 --> 00:15:34,600 Yeah, I think, 601 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:34,933 you know, 602 00:15:34,933 --> 00:15:35,566 in general, 603 00:15:35,566 --> 00:15:37,733 there's about 7000 different 604 00:15:37,733 --> 00:15:39,100 e-cigarette products on the market 605 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,033 and only about 45 of them 606 00:15:41,033 --> 00:15:43,166 are regulated by the FDA. 607 00:15:43,166 --> 00:15:46,000 45 of them? 45 of the 7000. Got it. Wow. 608 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:46,966 So, you know, 609 00:15:46,966 --> 00:15:48,500 I think we're doing a pretty poor job 610 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,033 of regulating them. 611 00:15:50,033 --> 00:15:51,133 I think, in general, we're 612 00:15:51,133 --> 00:15:53,566 also making it look cool to kids. 613 00:15:53,566 --> 00:15:54,766 And I think we're not doing 614 00:15:54,766 --> 00:15:56,933 a very good job of helping 615 00:15:56,933 --> 00:15:57,933 cigarette smokers 616 00:15:57,933 --> 00:16:00,100 transition off of the vape pen 617 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:01,733 as they're trying to quit cigarettes. 618 00:16:01,733 --> 00:16:02,733 So, I think there's 619 00:16:02,733 --> 00:16:04,933 kind of a threefold approach 620 00:16:04,933 --> 00:16:06,200 that we need to really help 621 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,133 regulate these better. 622 00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:09,500 And if you could just wave your magic 623 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:10,033 wand and say, 624 00:16:10,033 --> 00:16:11,633 you know what, I'm in charge 625 00:16:11,633 --> 00:16:13,366 of tightening up these regulations. 626 00:16:13,366 --> 00:16:14,600 Just what kind of things 627 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:15,766 would you throw out there? 628 00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:16,900 And this is for both of you, 629 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:17,433 because I'm 630 00:16:17,433 --> 00:16:19,700 sure it'll give us all really good ideas. 631 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:21,300 Stop making them unicorn sparklers. 632 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:23,166 Exactly. Start there. Yeah. 633 00:16:23,166 --> 00:16:25,333 Removing the flavorings. Yes. 634 00:16:25,333 --> 00:16:27,333 I think higher fines or 635 00:16:27,333 --> 00:16:28,366 punishments for places 636 00:16:28,366 --> 00:16:29,366 that are selling 637 00:16:29,366 --> 00:16:32,533 unregulated vape pens and pods as well. 638 00:16:32,533 --> 00:16:34,133 And you know, on, 639 00:16:34,133 --> 00:16:36,200 I think cigarettes are doing this now... 640 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:36,833 I always 641 00:16:36,833 --> 00:16:37,966 when I think of cigarette machines 642 00:16:37,966 --> 00:16:39,033 I think of, like, bowling alleys 643 00:16:39,033 --> 00:16:40,900 with, like, the thing you pull and it drops? Yes. 644 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:41,533 So I know they didn't 645 00:16:41,533 --> 00:16:41,966 have them back 646 00:16:41,966 --> 00:16:42,600 then, but 647 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,233 like really, really obnoxious, 648 00:16:45,233 --> 00:16:46,433 super inconvenient, 649 00:16:46,433 --> 00:16:48,733 unsexy warnings on the box 650 00:16:48,733 --> 00:16:49,833 I think is also helpful. 651 00:16:49,833 --> 00:16:51,900 Pictures of lung cancer? Yes. 652 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:53,900 Yeah. Truly. Yes. 653 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:55,233 So we, 654 00:16:55,233 --> 00:16:56,900 we have a long way to go in regulating, 655 00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:57,933 but we also have a long way to go 656 00:16:57,933 --> 00:16:59,233 and figuring out what the heck 657 00:16:59,233 --> 00:17:01,100 this is even doing to us. Absolutely. 658 00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:01,800 So again, 659 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,100 I don't want to put words in your mouth, 660 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:03,800 but I'm going to go ahead 661 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,300 and assume as professionals, 662 00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:05,766 you would both 663 00:17:05,766 --> 00:17:06,633 just tell us to 664 00:17:06,633 --> 00:17:07,933 err on the side of caution 665 00:17:07,933 --> 00:17:09,533 and take these out of our mouths. 666 00:17:09,533 --> 00:17:10,966 Just say no. Yep. 667 00:17:10,966 --> 00:17:12,833 Just say no. Exactly. 668 00:17:12,833 --> 00:17:14,933 Thank you so much for educating us 669 00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:16,533 and for reminding us 670 00:17:16,533 --> 00:17:18,200 that, you know, things that a lot of us 671 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,300 probably already know, 672 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:20,033 but we're just kind of 673 00:17:20,033 --> 00:17:20,600 looking the other way 674 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,033 because we like doing what we like 675 00:17:22,033 --> 00:17:23,300 doing, right? 676 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:24,733 Absolutely. Oh, we appreciate your time. 677 00:17:24,733 --> 00:17:25,366 Thank you both. 678 00:17:25,366 --> 00:17:27,400 Thank you very much. Absolutely.