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Hi.

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Welcome to Live Well with UCI Health.

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I'm Ryan Manno,

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iHeart Radio's KOST 103.5

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and the Ellen K Morning Show.

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Thrilled to be joined

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by this gentleman here

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today, Doctor Gary Deng,

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the director of UCI Health

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Integrative Oncology Program.

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Thank you for being here.

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Thank you.

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So this is very exciting.

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I think this is a this is something I'm

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looking forward to learning more about.

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And I think a lot of folks

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maybe watching

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are coming at this

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where I'm coming at this

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from integrative oncology.

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Start from the beginning.

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What is that?

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You have to go back

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like 20 years ago,

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when people were trying

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to incorporate

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some of the non-Western treatments

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together with Western treatment,

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especially in cancer care,

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because cancer

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is very difficult to treat.

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And so we were integrating

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conventional Western medicine with

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at that time

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called complementary

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and alternative medicine,

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which are basically things

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like natural health

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products, herbs and supplements,

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acupuncture, meditation, and so on.

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Right.

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Over the last 20 years,

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there is enough research

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showing this actually

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is the integrational form.

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In essence,

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what we're integrating is

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what's being done to the patient

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from outside

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and the what the patient can harness

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from the inside. Okay.

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So a lot of these

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unconventional therapies

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focus on making the patients

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do better from the inside.

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Okay, so give me some examples

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of when you say outside and inside.

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What do you mean? Outside

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would be what? Like the chemotherapy?

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Yeah. like outside

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you got the chemotherapy.

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You got the radiation,

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the drug infused into your veins.

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Sure.

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Radiation and surgery. Inside means

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you change the internal environment

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by changing your diet.

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How do you exercise.

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How to reduce stress. Sleep.

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Circadian rhythm.

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Yeah.

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Social environment.

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Okay.

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So these are what we call

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changing the ecosystem

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the cancer cells are living in.

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Okay.

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They don't live in isolation.

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You the cancer cells

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don't live in isolation.

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It's in there.

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They live in our body.

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They interact

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with the rest of our body.

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For example, what we eat,

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the nutrients we eat

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expose

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every cell in a body,

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including cancer cells.

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You can make it more supportive

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or friendly to cancer cells.

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Or you can make it less friendly

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or more hostile to cancer cells.

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Okay, so this is I've seen this

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this phrase the whole person

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integrative care right.

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The whole person

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being the inside of the person.

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Yeah. That's what we mean by whole person.

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Not just the cancer tissue.

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Yeah.

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But your cardiovascular system,

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your endocrine system.

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Your immune system.

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Yeah.

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Your nerve system.

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Because all these are connected

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nerve system.

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Your emotions change

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your endocrine system,

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change your reaction

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to the biological process

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involving cancer.

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Your diet can

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change the microbiome

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or the bacteria living in our gut

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that in turn,

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change the immune system.

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Yes.

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So there are some studies

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showing for people

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who eat a high-fiber diet

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or people who take certain

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kind of probiotics,

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the immunotherapy works better.

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Okay.

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These are both published on Science

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or every top journal.

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So it's

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kind of like everything either

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it's a hand in hand thing.

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Yeah.

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The more you're taking care

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of the inside

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the better you're going to respond

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to what's coming from the outside.

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Exactly.

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So this part is,

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overlooked in historically.

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Right people?

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I want to talk about that. Yeah.

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Go ahead.

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You say that,

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and then I have questions

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about that part.

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Historically, we're

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also it's based on our understanding

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of how cancer come about.

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So initially we thought,

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oh, cancer

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is because the cells

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have the mutation.

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The mutations genes.

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They grow out of control.

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So let's cut the mutation,

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kill the cancer cells. Right.

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That was great.

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Yes.

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We made a lot of progress

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in targeting cancer cells.

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But in the last ten years

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or so we found

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the supporting environment.

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We call it microenvironment.

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And bigger

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theme is microenvironment.

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Yeah. It's also important.

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Yeah.

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One example is

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the cancer

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will not grow

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beyond the size of a sesame

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unless they can recruit blood vessel

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to support oxygen and nutrients.

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This is a process

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called angiogenesis.

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So there are drugs being developed

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to cut off angiogenesis.

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But then they found stress

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promote this angiogenesis. Yeah.

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So they did some study in mice.

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When you stress the mice

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two hours a day

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the tumor grow fast

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because the adrenaline stimulate

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the growth of blood vessels

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into tumor to support them.

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So what we do in the oncology

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is to use

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a lot of these non drug therapy

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to help people reduce stress.

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You can not just give people

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a prescription to reduce stress.

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Like Lorazepam. I wish. Or

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Valium.

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Sure. It's

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it works but it's very narrow.

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It doesn't reduce

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your overall strategy.

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Just make you look like

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you are less stressed. Yes.

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Okay.

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So did you

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I don't know whether personally

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or you know,

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overall, did you have you run into

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when you first started.

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All of that's right.

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Did you run into some

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some skeptics or roadblocks

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like was this

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it was this a tough one for you

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to kind of get into? 20 years ago?

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That's what I mean.

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Now, no.

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Right now

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it's become widely accepted

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that we have to treat cancer

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in the context of the whole person.

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Absolutely.

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What was that turning point?

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What what was it

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that opened people's eyes?

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Is it

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the fact that you're

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coming at this now

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with with evidence, with science,

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with studies, with research?

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Is that it?

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That's the major part,

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because a lot of the therapies

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we integrate for non-Western

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treatment

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has been around for hundreds,

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if not thousands of years. Right?

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I like acupuncture or meditation.

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Yeah.

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Or how you time

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your eating with the

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they eat at the time of the day,

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you know the circadian rhythm. Yeah.

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And so for example,

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in traditional Chinese medicine,

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certain hours of

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day you need to do certain things.

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You can have a certain hour.

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You go to bed, you eat each meal

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a certain time.

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So all these were in theory

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by tradition. Yes.

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What made it

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mainstream are these

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scientific research.

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Most of them happened

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in the last ten years or so.

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And one example

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for the circadian rhythm. Right.

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in traditional Chinese medicine

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we always say, oh, you should,

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you should take a nap around noon

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or you should sleep.

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You should... don't

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go to sleep after midnight.

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You go to sleep before midnight.

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Right.

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So now the people who study

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circadian rhythm,

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they found every cell in our body

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actually have a clock system.

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It's called the clock gene system.

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Every cell, every cell.

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Yeah.

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It's universal,

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because if the sun goes up and down

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and every living organism

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is exposed to that.

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So yeah, they develop that.

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And the

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people who studied

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and discovered this and studied

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this got the Nobel Prize

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and I believe in 2017 or 18, 2017.

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So that's when people say, “a-ha!”

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The circadian rhythm,

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the timing

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of eating,

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sleeping, doing

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things are actually important.

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So you can see the scientific data

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correlate with what

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we have been practicing. Yeah.

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In some of these

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traditional medical systems.

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Do you find,

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because I would bet

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that most people are very bad

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at this,

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that because of the nature of our

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crazy lives,

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our jobs our go, go, go,

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that most people aren't mindful

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of what you're talking about.

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Yeah.

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So you're

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you're cutting right

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to the heart of the issue.

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We know all these.

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But how to change

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people's behavior, that's it,

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how to make people do better.

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The first step is to be mindful.

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Yeah.

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To be aware

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this actually is a thing.

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This is actually important.

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At UCI

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there is a scientist

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Dr. Masri.

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She studied

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this circadian rhythm and timing,

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and she found in mice models,

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if the mice are sleep deprived

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like they sleep

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only 2-3 hours a day,

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or you're

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constantly changing the night-day

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cycle. Yeah. Night or nocturnal

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animals.

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So, their cycle is reverse from us.

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If you're constantly change that

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the cancer grow faster.

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Oh my God.

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And immunotherapy

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doesn't work as well.

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So you can see just by changing

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how you do things

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every day,

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you may create an environment

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that's suppresses

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tumor growth

00:08:01:02 - 00:08:02:16

and promote immune system

00:08:02:16 - 00:08:04:00

to fight cancer.

00:08:04:00 - 00:08:05:16

We are trying to research it

00:08:05:16 - 00:08:07:10

in human to move

00:08:07:10 - 00:08:09:16

what she found in mice

00:08:09:16 - 00:08:12:04

and convert it translate to human.

00:08:12:04 - 00:08:13:05

This way we can develop

00:08:13:05 - 00:08:15:00

better cancer treatment. Yeah.

00:08:15:00 - 00:08:16:12

So you mentioned,

00:08:16:12 - 00:08:18:15

how every cell has a clock.

00:08:18:15 - 00:08:21:02

And pardon my ignorance on this.

00:08:21:02 - 00:08:21:21

Is my clock

00:08:21:21 - 00:08:22:20

different than your clock,

00:08:22:20 - 00:08:24:06

or is it relatively the same?

00:08:24:06 - 00:08:25:15

Most people are the same.

00:08:25:15 - 00:08:27:07

But then you got the night owls

00:08:27:07 - 00:08:29:01

whose clock is different.

00:08:29:01 - 00:08:30:02

But each one of us

00:08:30:02 - 00:08:31:18

have our own rhythm.

00:08:31:18 - 00:08:32:22

So my advice you already.

00:08:32:22 - 00:08:33:15

To our patients,

00:08:33:15 - 00:08:35:03

the first step is

00:08:35:03 - 00:08:37:11

just don't keep changing day by day,

00:08:37:11 - 00:08:37:23

okay?

00:08:37:23 - 00:08:38:17

If you're

00:08:38:17 - 00:08:41:12

if you're a night person, fine.

00:08:41:12 - 00:08:42:16

Just do that.

00:08:42:16 - 00:08:43:19

But it's not the best

00:08:43:19 - 00:08:44:22

for most people,

00:08:44:22 - 00:08:46:02

because our natural rhythm

00:08:46:02 - 00:08:47:15

actually goes by the sun.

00:08:47:15 - 00:08:48:04

Yeah.

00:08:48:04 - 00:08:51:14

Imagine... 5000 years ago.

00:08:51:14 - 00:08:53:08

The candles are expensive.

00:08:53:08 - 00:08:54:12

There's no light.

00:08:54:12 - 00:08:55:20

So people would just go by the sun.

00:08:55:20 - 00:08:56:11

The sun goes up.

00:08:56:11 - 00:08:57:18

You start to be active.

00:08:57:18 - 00:08:59:01

When the sun goes down.

00:08:59:01 - 00:09:00:23

That's it. You go to rest.

00:09:00:23 - 00:09:03:02

So most people have that rhythm.

00:09:03:02 - 00:09:03:23

Of course, occasionally

00:09:03:23 - 00:09:04:22

you have some genetic.

00:09:04:22 - 00:09:06:05

There are people who are genetically

00:09:06:05 - 00:09:08:01

programed to do it differently.

00:09:08:01 - 00:09:08:21

That's the problem

00:09:08:21 - 00:09:10:04

with our modern life.

00:09:10:04 - 00:09:12:00

Yeah. Which we're all short on time.

00:09:12:00 - 00:09:13:08

We have too many things to do.

00:09:13:08 - 00:09:14:20

The first thing you're cut

00:09:14:20 - 00:09:15:22

is actually your sleep time.

00:09:15:22 - 00:09:17:18

You just see up later. Yes.

00:09:17:18 - 00:09:19:09

And then get up in the morning

00:09:19:09 - 00:09:20:09

if you do not.

00:09:20:09 - 00:09:21:15

Here's what I found out about that

00:09:21:15 - 00:09:22:07

when you.

00:09:22:07 - 00:09:22:13

Okay.

00:09:22:13 - 00:09:23:17

So I, I'm speaking from experience.

00:09:23:17 - 00:09:24:16

I bet you everyone knows this.

00:09:24:16 - 00:09:26:14

Like when you try to operate

00:09:26:14 - 00:09:28:13

the next day on little sleep,

00:09:28:13 - 00:09:29:23

your performance is worse

00:09:29:23 - 00:09:30:18

that next day.

00:09:30:18 - 00:09:32:11

And you, you don't get as much done.

00:09:32:11 - 00:09:33:01

You feel

00:09:33:01 - 00:09:34:06

you never quite catch up

00:09:34:06 - 00:09:35:13

when you start from a deficit.

00:09:35:13 - 00:09:36:02

Yeah, right.

00:09:36:02 - 00:09:36:13

There's something

00:09:36:13 - 00:09:37:16

called the sleep debt. Right?

00:09:37:16 - 00:09:38:19

So we always say

00:09:38:19 - 00:09:39:17

while during the day,

00:09:39:17 - 00:09:42:02

during the weekdays, if you're short

00:09:42:02 - 00:09:43:02

sleep deprived,

00:09:43:02 - 00:09:43:18

during the weekend,

00:09:43:18 - 00:09:45:05

you must catch up, right.

00:09:45:05 - 00:09:46:07

You're sleeping.

00:09:46:07 - 00:09:46:17

You're kind of.

00:09:46:17 - 00:09:47:06

And I do that.

00:09:47:06 - 00:09:48:00

Yeah. Yeah. Great.

00:09:48:00 - 00:09:48:21

So you that's

00:09:48:21 - 00:09:50:20

what sustains people. Okay.

00:09:50:20 - 00:09:52:07

So what you don't want is

00:09:52:07 - 00:09:53:22

you'll wake up at alarm clock. Yeah.

00:09:53:22 - 00:09:55:16

And then you have a cup of coffee.

00:09:55:16 - 00:09:56:12

Without a cup of coffee,

00:09:56:12 - 00:09:57:13

you cannot function.

00:09:57:13 - 00:09:58:10

That by yourselves

00:09:58:10 - 00:10:00:11

tells me you're sleep deprived.

00:10:00:11 - 00:10:01:19

You didn't get all the sleep

00:10:01:19 - 00:10:02:07

you need.

00:10:02:07 - 00:10:05:05

Yeah, so I usually advise patients

00:10:05:05 - 00:10:06:15

if you set an alarm,

00:10:06:15 - 00:10:08:15

do not set it to 6 a.m.

00:10:08:15 - 00:10:11:06

to 10 p.m..

00:10:11:08 - 00:10:12:12

So when the alarm goes off,

00:10:12:12 - 00:10:14:13

you say, “I need to go to bed now.”

00:10:14:13 - 00:10:17:00

Oh, so you go to bed.

00:10:17:00 - 00:10:18:11

So you set a bedtime alarm.

00:10:18:11 - 00:10:20:07

Exactly. What?

00:10:20:07 - 00:10:20:22

That's right.

00:10:20:22 - 00:10:22:13

Yes, but think about it.

00:10:22:13 - 00:10:23:19

It's actually makes sense. Yes.

00:10:23:19 - 00:10:25:06

So this way you're guaranteed

00:10:25:06 - 00:10:28:00

your number of hours of sleep. Yeah.

00:10:28:00 - 00:10:29:13

And because over time,

00:10:29:13 - 00:10:31:19

your performance will deteriorate.

00:10:31:19 - 00:10:32:03

Right.

00:10:32:03 - 00:10:33:16

There are all kinds of association.

00:10:33:16 - 00:10:33:23

Yeah.

00:10:33:23 - 00:10:35:20

Lack of sleep with Alzheimer's.

00:10:35:20 - 00:10:36:04

Yeah.

00:10:36:04 - 00:10:37:11

Cardiovascular disease,

00:10:37:11 - 00:10:38:14

cancer and all that.

00:10:38:14 - 00:10:39:07

It's incredible.

00:10:39:07 - 00:10:40:08

So so sleep.

00:10:40:08 - 00:10:40:23

We've covered sleep.

00:10:40:23 - 00:10:42:07

That's one part of it.

00:10:42:07 - 00:10:43:08

What are some other things

00:10:43:08 - 00:10:45:06

that that you focus on right.

00:10:45:06 - 00:10:46:20

In integrative oncology

00:10:46:20 - 00:10:47:19

a lot is

00:10:47:19 - 00:10:49:03

we call it the six pillars

00:10:49:03 - 00:10:50:07

for the foundation of human.

00:10:50:07 - 00:10:51:00

Let's talk about it.

00:10:51:00 - 00:10:51:12

Yeah.

00:10:51:12 - 00:10:53:06

Diet, exercise,

00:10:53:06 - 00:10:54:07

stress management,

00:10:54:07 - 00:10:56:03

sleep with recovered

00:10:56:03 - 00:10:57:14

and social environment.

00:10:57:14 - 00:10:59:02

You know, in the same experiment

00:10:59:02 - 00:11:00:16

they did,

00:11:00:16 - 00:11:02:06

when they isolate the mice,

00:11:02:06 - 00:11:03:23

the tumors grow faster as well.

00:11:03:23 - 00:11:06:10

So the last part is often overlooked

00:11:06:10 - 00:11:07:19

is what we called

00:11:07:19 - 00:11:09:07

joy and meaning in life,

00:11:09:07 - 00:11:10:08

which means

00:11:10:08 - 00:11:11:08

you have to introduce

00:11:11:08 - 00:11:12:06

something positive

00:11:12:06 - 00:11:13:08

in your daily life,

00:11:13:08 - 00:11:15:02

not just avoiding the negative.

00:11:15:02 - 00:11:15:17

You know,

00:11:15:17 - 00:11:17:08

I don't want cancer to grow.

00:11:17:08 - 00:11:20:02

I don't want this, I don't, but

00:11:20:02 - 00:11:21:05

do you have any hobby?

00:11:21:05 - 00:11:22:21

Are you doing it today? Yeah.

00:11:22:21 - 00:11:24:01

Do you have anything

00:11:24:01 - 00:11:25:15

that made you laugh today? Right?

00:11:25:15 - 00:11:26:12

Do you find what

00:11:26:12 - 00:11:28:10

your work or how you spend

00:11:28:10 - 00:11:29:14

your time is meaningful?

00:11:29:14 - 00:11:31:18

Yes. So those are the six pillars.

00:11:31:18 - 00:11:33:07

And it's so fascinating

00:11:33:07 - 00:11:34:10

because I feel like

00:11:34:10 - 00:11:35:15

I mean, I'm guilty of this.

00:11:35:15 - 00:11:37:01

I would listen to

00:11:37:01 - 00:11:38:19

to someone say this and I wouldn't

00:11:38:19 - 00:11:40:22

associate them with

00:11:40:22 - 00:11:44:08

necessarily medically backed.

00:11:44:08 - 00:11:46:00

But but what you're telling us

00:11:46:00 - 00:11:46:17

is that

00:11:46:17 - 00:11:48:01

there is research to support that.

00:11:48:01 - 00:11:49:00

You need these things.

00:11:49:00 - 00:11:50:02

Yeah, I think it's

00:11:50:02 - 00:11:52:02

just not widely known to the public.

00:11:52:02 - 00:11:52:10

Yes.

00:11:52:10 - 00:11:53:00

The research

00:11:53:00 - 00:11:55:07

on all, all six of them,

00:11:55:07 - 00:11:56:09

the six pillars.

00:11:56:09 - 00:11:57:16

So I use another example.

00:11:57:16 - 00:11:58:23

I just gave a talk

00:11:58:23 - 00:12:00:08

to a nutrition conference

00:12:00:08 - 00:12:01:12

over the weekend

00:12:01:12 - 00:12:02:22

talking about

00:12:02:22 - 00:12:05:02

the role of nutrition and nutrients

00:12:05:02 - 00:12:07:05

plays in cancer prevention,

00:12:07:05 - 00:12:08:18

cancer during cancer treatment

00:12:08:18 - 00:12:09:12

and after cancer

00:12:09:12 - 00:12:11:02

treatment, survivorship. Right.

00:12:11:02 - 00:12:12:02

So there are a lot of studies

00:12:12:02 - 00:12:13:03

showing, you know,

00:12:13:03 - 00:12:14:08

I can even back in the 80s

00:12:14:08 - 00:12:16:02

they found like 30% of

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:18:22

cancer was actually related to the diet.

00:12:19:00 - 00:12:19:17

Obesity is

00:12:19:17 - 00:12:20:11

clearly linked

00:12:20:11 - 00:12:23:01

with higher risk of breast cancer.

00:12:23:01 - 00:12:24:22

Colon cancer

00:12:24:22 - 00:12:26:02

prostate cancer

00:12:26:02 - 00:12:28:07

especially uterine cancer.

00:12:28:07 - 00:12:30:09

So in prevention

00:12:30:09 - 00:12:31:03

nutrition important

00:12:31:03 - 00:12:32:04

even during treatment

00:12:32:04 - 00:12:33:08

they found

00:12:33:08 - 00:12:34:23

people who take a more

00:12:34:23 - 00:12:36:20

like a mediterranean diet,

00:12:36:20 - 00:12:37:20

they tend to have a lower

00:12:37:20 - 00:12:39:17

risk of cancer to begin with.

00:12:39:17 - 00:12:40:22

And if they eat healthy

00:12:40:22 - 00:12:42:13

rather than eating junk food,

00:12:42:13 - 00:12:44:15

they tolerate chemotherapy better

00:12:44:15 - 00:12:45:09

and eventually

00:12:45:09 - 00:12:47:09

they have lower recurrence

00:12:47:09 - 00:12:49:11

because they can stand

00:12:49:11 - 00:12:51:13

withstand the full course of chemo.

00:12:51:13 - 00:12:53:06

So they got the maximum benefit.

00:12:53:06 - 00:12:53:14

Yeah.

00:12:53:14 - 00:12:55:13

And then they found patients

00:12:55:13 - 00:12:57:06

who eat a high fiber diet.

00:12:57:06 - 00:12:58:05

Again, the immunotherapy

00:12:58:05 - 00:12:59:02

works better.

00:12:59:02 - 00:13:01:01

So you can see that

00:13:01:01 - 00:13:02:13

diet is a major part.

00:13:02:13 - 00:13:04:02

And physical activity.

00:13:04:02 - 00:13:04:23

And they also found

00:13:04:23 - 00:13:05:18

recently last year

00:13:05:18 - 00:13:06:10

there's a big paper

00:13:06:10 - 00:13:07:14

published in the New England

00:13:07:14 - 00:13:08:06

journal of medicine.

00:13:08:06 - 00:13:10:22

They found colon cancer survivors

00:13:10:22 - 00:13:14:23

who exercise regularly, rigorously.

00:13:15:01 - 00:13:18:01

Their risk of recurrence is lower

00:13:18:06 - 00:13:19:23

and everything else being equal,

00:13:19:23 - 00:13:22:03

just exercise will help you reduce

00:13:22:03 - 00:13:22:13

cancer risk,

00:13:22:13 - 00:13:23:20

any specific exercise

00:13:23:20 - 00:13:24:21

or just staying active.

00:13:24:21 - 00:13:25:01

Yeah.

00:13:25:01 - 00:13:26:13

So there's an active, very active

00:13:26:13 - 00:13:30:01

field of exercise here.

00:13:30:03 - 00:13:30:18

In terms of

00:13:30:18 - 00:13:32:12

frequency, modality,

00:13:32:12 - 00:13:34:06

intensity, duration. Right.

00:13:34:06 - 00:13:35:10

So there are all these

00:13:35:10 - 00:13:36:17

variables there.

00:13:36:17 - 00:13:37:18

And the current

00:13:37:18 - 00:13:39:15

consensus is frequency

00:13:39:15 - 00:13:40:22

is the most important. Okay.

00:13:40:22 - 00:13:42:19

You do a little bit every day.

00:13:42:19 - 00:13:43:17

It's better than doing

00:13:43:17 - 00:13:45:01

nothing during the weekdays

00:13:45:01 - 00:13:46:06

and then run the marathon

00:13:46:06 - 00:13:47:04

in the weekend. Yeah.

00:13:47:04 - 00:13:47:12

Yeah.

00:13:47:12 - 00:13:49:04

So so a little bit

00:13:49:04 - 00:13:51:01

every day is like we eat good food.

00:13:51:01 - 00:13:53:19

You eat healthy food every day,

00:13:53:19 - 00:13:55:05

rather than eat junk

00:13:55:05 - 00:13:55:21

during the weekend

00:13:55:21 - 00:13:56:15

and eat some healthy

00:13:56:15 - 00:13:57:18

food in the week. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:57:18 - 00:13:59:19

That's not not going to work. Right.

00:13:59:19 - 00:14:01:22

So frequency every day.

00:14:01:22 - 00:14:04:11

Yeah. Intensity. Moderate intensity.

00:14:04:11 - 00:14:06:23

You don't have to, you know,

00:14:06:23 - 00:14:08:13

run a 5K,

00:14:08:13 - 00:14:09:08

just bring your heart

00:14:09:08 - 00:14:10:19

rate up a little bit

00:14:10:19 - 00:14:12:20

and sustain it for 30 minutes.

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:13:13

That appears to be

00:14:13:13 - 00:14:15:12

the most doable ones.

00:14:15:12 - 00:14:16:11

Practical

00:14:16:11 - 00:14:17:16

and then what's interesting,

00:14:17:16 - 00:14:18:22

this is the interesting part.

00:14:18:22 - 00:14:20:04

I was always wondering

00:14:20:04 - 00:14:21:13

what kind of exercise

00:14:21:13 - 00:14:22:17

is the best,

00:14:22:17 - 00:14:23:09

is this,

00:14:23:09 - 00:14:25:07

swimming or walking initially?

00:14:25:07 - 00:14:26:00

You know, a lot of you are

00:14:26:00 - 00:14:28:06

doing jogging, and,

00:14:28:08 - 00:14:29:18

initially I thought swimming.

00:14:29:18 - 00:14:31:07

Because swimming, you exercise

00:14:31:07 - 00:14:32:16

both the upper body and lower body.

00:14:32:16 - 00:14:35:02

You exercise the cardiovascular,

00:14:35:02 - 00:14:36:00

muscle resistant.

00:14:36:00 - 00:14:37:08

No strain on your joints, right?

00:14:37:08 - 00:14:38:13

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:14:38:13 - 00:14:40:01

So but then,

00:14:40:01 - 00:14:41:21

the data actually said otherwise.

00:14:41:21 - 00:14:42:08

Oh.

00:14:42:08 - 00:14:45:12

So the data supports,

00:14:45:14 - 00:14:46:02

can you guess

00:14:46:02 - 00:14:47:00

which one would be the best?

00:14:47:00 - 00:14:49:23

Gosh, running.

00:14:50:04 - 00:14:51:14

Okay.

00:14:51:14 - 00:14:53:17

Do you like tennis or pickleball?

00:14:53:17 - 00:14:55:02

I used to play tennis

00:14:55:02 - 00:14:55:15

in high school,

00:14:55:15 - 00:14:56:09

so they found racket

00:14:56:09 - 00:14:58:19

sports is a really? Yeah.

00:14:58:19 - 00:15:00:03

Surprising. Right.

00:15:00:03 - 00:15:02:11

So this came from the Danish study.

00:15:02:11 - 00:15:03:23

They track these people,

00:15:03:23 - 00:15:05:00

a different kind of exercise

00:15:05:00 - 00:15:05:23

they do.

00:15:05:23 - 00:15:07:09

They track that lifespan

00:15:07:09 - 00:15:09:09

extension of lifespan

00:15:09:09 - 00:15:10:11

on the baseline,

00:15:10:11 - 00:15:11:12

people who don't exercise.

00:15:11:12 - 00:15:12:23

And I say one,

00:15:12:23 - 00:15:14:05

people who do racket

00:15:14:05 - 00:15:15:13

sports regularly

00:15:15:13 - 00:15:17:12

and is a racquetball.

00:15:17:12 - 00:15:18:13

Squash. Yeah.

00:15:18:13 - 00:15:20:03

Nowaday pickleball,

00:15:20:03 - 00:15:21:20

they extend the lifespan by

00:15:21:20 - 00:15:23:12

nine years.

00:15:23:12 - 00:15:25:01

People who do swimming

00:15:25:01 - 00:15:28:01

and so on is more like 5 to 7 years.

00:15:28:03 - 00:15:30:08

You just do regular walking,

00:15:30:08 - 00:15:31:17

three years.

00:15:31:17 - 00:15:34:00

So a little bit of exercise already

00:15:34:00 - 00:15:35:20

extend your lifespan.

00:15:35:20 - 00:15:37:15

But racket sports appears

00:15:37:15 - 00:15:39:04

to be associated with the longest

00:15:39:04 - 00:15:40:03

extension.

00:15:40:03 - 00:15:40:19

That's incredible.

00:15:40:19 - 00:15:41:16

Can you guess why?

00:15:41:16 - 00:15:43:16

I can’t. I'm just I'm trying to rack my...

00:15:43:16 - 00:15:44:02

I mean,

00:15:44:02 - 00:15:45:23

is it because of the constant moving

00:15:45:23 - 00:15:46:19

side to side?

00:15:46:19 - 00:15:48:18

You're you're using all muscles.

00:15:48:18 - 00:15:49:22

Your heart rate is up.

00:15:49:22 - 00:15:51:10

It's kind of a full body workout.

00:15:51:10 - 00:15:52:01

Exactly.

00:15:52:01 - 00:15:54:18

So because it's not the same,

00:15:54:18 - 00:15:55:05

you know,

00:15:55:05 - 00:15:57:10

if you do, jogging is always the same.

00:15:57:10 - 00:15:58:11

Same with swimming.

00:15:58:11 - 00:16:00:05

Your heart rate goes up and down.

00:16:00:05 - 00:16:01:09

So you're actually training

00:16:01:09 - 00:16:03:02

your autonomic nervous system

00:16:03:02 - 00:16:04:06

going up and down. That makes sense.

00:16:04:06 - 00:16:04:19

And then you keep

00:16:04:19 - 00:16:06:04

changing the directions.

00:16:06:04 - 00:16:07:20

So every time you change direction

00:16:07:20 - 00:16:08:18

you actually stimulate

00:16:08:18 - 00:16:10:03

your bone and muscle.

00:16:10:03 - 00:16:12:03

You're stopping and going yeah.

00:16:12:03 - 00:16:13:00

And there is another

00:16:13:00 - 00:16:14:09

big component there,

00:16:14:09 - 00:16:15:13

which is often

00:16:15:13 - 00:16:17:19

overlooked in exercise science

00:16:17:19 - 00:16:19:11

or exercise practice.

00:16:19:11 - 00:16:20:22

Is the social environment,

00:16:20:22 - 00:16:22:14

the social component.

00:16:22:14 - 00:16:24:22

You you cannot play tennis or raquetball

00:16:24:22 - 00:16:25:17

by yourself, right?

00:16:25:17 - 00:16:27:02

You have to find a partner.

00:16:27:02 - 00:16:28:09

You have the group.

00:16:28:09 - 00:16:30:10

So you do it in group

00:16:30:10 - 00:16:32:04

which, number one, will sustain

00:16:32:04 - 00:16:33:02

you because, oh,

00:16:33:02 - 00:16:35:12

you need to come play tennis with me

00:16:35:12 - 00:16:36:06

every weekend.

00:16:36:06 - 00:16:37:12

Every Saturday. Right.

00:16:37:12 - 00:16:39:10

So that otherwise you just say,

00:16:39:10 - 00:16:40:13

I don't want to go or I don't,

00:16:40:13 - 00:16:41:12

I just stay home.

00:16:41:12 - 00:16:43:01

Yeah. So the social environment.

00:16:43:01 - 00:16:44:14

Yeah. Make you more likely to do it.

00:16:44:14 - 00:16:45:07

I'll tell you right now,

00:16:45:07 - 00:16:46:23

whenever I have to go to the gym,

00:16:46:23 - 00:16:47:20

I don't go

00:16:47:20 - 00:16:49:10

unless someone says we're going.

00:16:49:10 - 00:16:50:07

Exactly. Yeah.

00:16:50:07 - 00:16:51:02

So you can see the

00:16:51:02 - 00:16:53:01

importance of social,

00:16:53:03 - 00:16:55:14

determinants in our lifestyle.

00:16:55:14 - 00:16:57:11

The second one is

00:16:57:11 - 00:16:58:12

the socialization

00:16:58:12 - 00:17:00:07

itself is therapeutic. Yep.

00:17:00:07 - 00:17:00:10

You know,

00:17:00:10 - 00:17:01:15

as I mentioned, in mice,

00:17:01:15 - 00:17:02:18

if you isolate the mice,

00:17:02:18 - 00:17:03:14

the tumor grow faster.

00:17:03:14 - 00:17:04:21

Because they’re stressed. In

00:17:04:21 - 00:17:06:05

human being, we are social animals.

00:17:06:05 - 00:17:08:04

So you have social you have friends.

00:17:08:04 - 00:17:10:00

And to exercise together...

00:17:10:00 - 00:17:12:13

It gives you extended lifespan.

00:17:12:13 - 00:17:14:04

So you can see there

00:17:14:04 - 00:17:15:19

all these very interesting things

00:17:15:19 - 00:17:17:19

that are not known to the public.

00:17:17:19 - 00:17:18:08

Yes.

00:17:18:08 - 00:17:19:06

And I hope they start

00:17:19:06 - 00:17:20:01

to become more known

00:17:20:01 - 00:17:21:02

because this is fascinating

00:17:21:02 - 00:17:22:00

and that they're proven.

00:17:22:00 - 00:17:22:21

So at what point

00:17:22:21 - 00:17:24:16

in someone, let's say someone was,

00:17:24:16 - 00:17:26:02

I don't know, recently diagnosed, at

00:17:26:02 - 00:17:27:07

what point would you recommend

00:17:27:07 - 00:17:29:16

someone, you know, seek out

00:17:29:16 - 00:17:32:02

an integrative oncology approach

00:17:32:02 - 00:17:33:14

upon diagnosis?

00:17:33:14 - 00:17:35:12

Or better yet, even before, right.

00:17:35:12 - 00:17:35:15

Yeah.

00:17:35:15 - 00:17:36:17

We want everyone

00:17:36:17 - 00:17:37:16

in the general population

00:17:37:16 - 00:17:39:21

to adopt this kind of healthy,

00:17:39:21 - 00:17:40:15

whole person

00:17:40:15 - 00:17:42:01

approach to their health. Yeah.

00:17:42:01 - 00:17:45:00

And but from our work at UCI

00:17:45:00 - 00:17:46:23

Cancer Care, UCI Health,

00:17:46:23 - 00:17:48:03

the Cancer Center,

00:17:48:03 - 00:17:49:07

we try to engage

00:17:49:07 - 00:17:51:16

our patients at the beginning,

00:17:51:16 - 00:17:52:22

the moment they're diagnosed,

00:17:52:22 - 00:17:53:18

for many reason.

00:17:53:18 - 00:17:54:15

Number one,

00:17:54:15 - 00:17:55:06

they're going through

00:17:55:06 - 00:17:56:08

a tremendous stress.

00:17:56:08 - 00:17:57:14

You know, a healthy person

00:17:57:14 - 00:17:59:05

diagnosed with cancer,

00:17:59:05 - 00:18:00:05

they think,

00:18:00:05 - 00:18:02:20

this is a very serious disease.

00:18:02:20 - 00:18:04:11

So they're under a lot of stress.

00:18:04:11 - 00:18:04:19

Right.

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:08:10

And we need to give them the tools

00:18:08:12 - 00:18:09:19

not just medication.

00:18:09:19 - 00:18:10:01

You know

00:18:10:01 - 00:18:10:16

we teach them

00:18:10:16 - 00:18:12:16

mind body meditation and so on.

00:18:12:16 - 00:18:14:01

So they stay strong

00:18:14:01 - 00:18:15:16

and they can deal with the anxiety

00:18:15:16 - 00:18:16:20

and stress.

00:18:16:20 - 00:18:17:11

And secondly,

00:18:17:11 - 00:18:18:22

we prepare them for nutrition.

00:18:18:22 - 00:18:20:03

So they have upcoming

00:18:20:03 - 00:18:22:01

surgery or chemo.

00:18:22:01 - 00:18:25:06

We want to give them the right diet.

00:18:25:08 - 00:18:27:13

So internally they're healthy.

00:18:27:13 - 00:18:28:21

They don't have a lot of ways

00:18:28:21 - 00:18:30:20

or junk circulating. Yeah.

00:18:30:20 - 00:18:31:16

And we want to get them

00:18:31:16 - 00:18:33:01

into an exercise regimen

00:18:33:01 - 00:18:33:21

so they can start

00:18:33:21 - 00:18:35:00

to build out their muscles

00:18:35:00 - 00:18:35:20

and so on.

00:18:35:20 - 00:18:38:15

So integral oncology can be

00:18:38:15 - 00:18:40:03

should be implemented

00:18:40:03 - 00:18:41:14

at the beginning of diagnosis.

00:18:41:14 - 00:18:44:05

That's not the case at this point.

00:18:44:05 - 00:18:46:04

And I think UCI Health

00:18:46:04 - 00:18:47:11

is taking a leadership role

00:18:47:11 - 00:18:49:09

in trying to make that happen. Yeah.

00:18:49:09 - 00:18:51:09

And so then you specifically

00:18:51:09 - 00:18:52:22

then with what you do, you work

00:18:52:22 - 00:18:54:16

what in tandem,

00:18:54:16 - 00:18:55:21

pretty hand in hand with their

00:18:55:21 - 00:18:58:07

with their actual day-to-day

00:18:58:07 - 00:18:59:20

care team. Yes.

00:18:59:20 - 00:19:00:14

You're part of that team.

00:19:00:14 - 00:19:01:19

Yeah, I'm part of that.

00:19:01:19 - 00:19:02:18

So,

00:19:02:18 - 00:19:04:19

my clinic is also in the same

00:19:04:19 - 00:19:06:01

building in

00:19:06:01 - 00:19:08:07

UCI Health Irvine Cancer Center.

00:19:08:07 - 00:19:10:00

So a lot of our patients

00:19:10:00 - 00:19:11:22

refer by my colleagues

00:19:11:22 - 00:19:13:11

oncology colleagues.

00:19:13:11 - 00:19:15:11

So we work together.

00:19:15:11 - 00:19:17:08

The our vision is for patients

00:19:17:08 - 00:19:18:08

diagnosed with cancer.

00:19:18:08 - 00:19:19:04

They got their

00:19:19:04 - 00:19:21:03

regular standard treatment

00:19:21:03 - 00:19:23:07

surgery, chemo, radiation.

00:19:23:07 - 00:19:24:03

The UCI Health.

00:19:24:03 - 00:19:25:06

They also pair up

00:19:25:06 - 00:19:26:15

with integrated oncology,

00:19:26:15 - 00:19:28:06

where we hold their hands

00:19:28:06 - 00:19:29:00

from the beginning

00:19:29:00 - 00:19:31:05

of the diagnosis through treatment,

00:19:31:05 - 00:19:32:10

through survivorship,

00:19:32:10 - 00:19:34:08

we optimize their lifestyle

00:19:34:08 - 00:19:35:13

and build the foundation

00:19:35:13 - 00:19:37:08

of the whole person wellness.

00:19:37:08 - 00:19:37:23

And we do that

00:19:37:23 - 00:19:40:05

with a lot of these therapies.

00:19:40:05 - 00:19:41:00

For example,

00:19:41:00 - 00:19:42:21

natural therapies, for example,

00:19:42:21 - 00:19:44:04

dietary plan,

00:19:44:04 - 00:19:45:07

exercise regimen

00:19:45:07 - 00:19:47:00

including yoga, tai chi

00:19:47:00 - 00:19:49:12

because those are not pure exercise.

00:19:49:12 - 00:19:51:05

They also make your mind

00:19:51:05 - 00:19:52:16

more resilient, right? Yeah.

00:19:52:16 - 00:19:53:20

So how to reduce stress?

00:19:53:20 - 00:19:55:09

So how to reduce stress?

00:19:55:09 - 00:19:56:15

We teach people

00:19:56:15 - 00:19:58:05

how to do these behavior

00:19:58:05 - 00:20:00:07

changes that promote better sleep.

00:20:00:07 - 00:20:02:17

So our mission is to have

00:20:02:17 - 00:20:04:23

every UCI patient, cancer patient

00:20:04:23 - 00:20:07:02

to have the opportunity

00:20:07:02 - 00:20:08:00

to take advantage of this.

00:20:08:00 - 00:20:08:13

I love this,

00:20:08:13 - 00:20:09:10

and I would think

00:20:09:10 - 00:20:10:13

if I'm going through that,

00:20:10:13 - 00:20:11:00

I would think

00:20:11:00 - 00:20:11:22

even just knowing that

00:20:11:22 - 00:20:14:13

that exists almost acts as a destressor

00:20:14:13 - 00:20:15:22

from the outset. Right?

00:20:15:22 - 00:20:17:08

Because I wouldn't expect

00:20:17:08 - 00:20:18:12

to have someone like you

00:20:18:12 - 00:20:20:14

walk in and say, hey, we're going to

00:20:20:14 - 00:20:21:00

you're going to,

00:20:21:00 - 00:20:21:22

you know, treat

00:20:21:22 - 00:20:24:01

you like the full person. Yeah.

00:20:24:01 - 00:20:25:20

Usually their first visit is, oh,

00:20:25:20 - 00:20:26:18

you have a serious disease.

00:20:26:18 - 00:20:27:06

Yes!

00:20:27:06 - 00:20:29:09

We’re going to cut you open, remove the tumor.

00:20:29:09 - 00:20:30:06

Or are we going to give you

00:20:30:06 - 00:20:32:02

a very strong drug

00:20:32:02 - 00:20:33:16

like chemotherapy?

00:20:33:16 - 00:20:35:04

Naturally people are fearful.

00:20:35:04 - 00:20:35:17

They don't they.

00:20:35:17 - 00:20:36:21

There's so much unknown.

00:20:36:21 - 00:20:39:02

And then we come in we say, “Yeah,

00:20:39:02 - 00:20:39:20

What a dream.

00:20:39:20 - 00:20:40:15

we have to do this,

00:20:40:15 - 00:20:42:00

but there are a lot of things

00:20:42:00 - 00:20:44:07

you can do yourself to help yourself.”

00:20:44:07 - 00:20:45:09

And not only reduce

00:20:45:09 - 00:20:47:11

these symptoms and anxiety,

00:20:47:11 - 00:20:49:03

but actually you're contributing

00:20:49:03 - 00:20:50:13

to your own treatment.

00:20:50:13 - 00:20:51:17

As I mentioned,

00:20:51:17 - 00:20:53:05

if you reduce stress,

00:20:53:05 - 00:20:54:12

your therapeutic effect

00:20:54:12 - 00:20:55:17

may be even better.

00:20:55:17 - 00:20:59:05

So you can see how much, this way of

00:20:59:05 - 00:21:00:21

thinking of cancer cure

00:21:00:21 - 00:21:03:00

is on one side, innovative,

00:21:03:00 - 00:21:04:07

on the other side,

00:21:04:07 - 00:21:05:22

common sense. Just makes sense.

00:21:05:22 - 00:21:07:11

It does. Yeah.

00:21:07:11 - 00:21:07:23

Do you have your

00:21:07:23 - 00:21:09:12

your hands in or your eyes

00:21:09:12 - 00:21:11:12

on some exciting research right now?

00:21:11:12 - 00:21:13:07

Yeah, we're doing a lot of research,

00:21:13:07 - 00:21:14:19

because that's the only way

00:21:14:19 - 00:21:16:19

to push the field forward. Yep.

00:21:16:19 - 00:21:18:07

So I have several project.

00:21:18:07 - 00:21:19:14

One is,

00:21:19:14 - 00:21:21:20

I am running a clinical trials

00:21:21:20 - 00:21:23:01

supported by National Cancer

00:21:23:01 - 00:21:23:22

Institute

00:21:23:22 - 00:21:25:21

using acupuncture

00:21:25:21 - 00:21:28:00

to treat patients hospitalized.

00:21:28:00 - 00:21:29:06

And they develop early

00:21:29:06 - 00:21:30:21

signs of sepsis. Okay.

00:21:30:21 - 00:21:31:20

Sepsis carries a

00:21:31:20 - 00:21:33:07

like a 20% mortality rate.

00:21:33:07 - 00:21:34:02

One of the leading

00:21:34:02 - 00:21:35:11

the most common

00:21:35:11 - 00:21:38:01

cause of death in the hospital.

00:21:38:01 - 00:21:39:11

And so...

00:21:39:11 - 00:21:41:03

my study animal studies showing

00:21:41:03 - 00:21:41:23

if you do acupuncture

00:21:41:23 - 00:21:42:23

a certain point,

00:21:42:23 - 00:21:44:01

you actually suppress

00:21:44:01 - 00:21:45:10

the inflammation

00:21:45:10 - 00:21:46:22

and you extend

00:21:46:22 - 00:21:49:07

you reduce the mortality.

00:21:49:09 - 00:21:51:02

So we're doing this in

00:21:51:02 - 00:21:51:12

human

00:21:51:12 - 00:21:51:22

and we have some

00:21:51:22 - 00:21:53:05

very encouraging data

00:21:53:05 - 00:21:54:15

that's probably going to be reported

00:21:54:15 - 00:21:55:17

in the next few months.

00:21:55:17 - 00:21:56:02

Yeah.

00:21:56:02 - 00:21:56:12

Showing

00:21:56:12 - 00:21:59:00

this can be a potential therapy.

00:21:59:00 - 00:22:00:00

So that's important

00:22:00:00 - 00:22:01:20

because we're using acupuncture

00:22:01:20 - 00:22:03:03

not only just to reduce

00:22:03:03 - 00:22:05:15

symptoms headache, nausea, vomiting.

00:22:05:15 - 00:22:07:04

We're actually trying to save life.

00:22:07:04 - 00:22:08:18

And extend the life.

00:22:08:18 - 00:22:09:10

So that's one

00:22:09:10 - 00:22:11:19

line of the research I'm doing

00:22:11:19 - 00:22:14:18

on specific integrative therapies.

00:22:14:18 - 00:22:17:23

And I also did other studies on yoga

00:22:18:00 - 00:22:19:04

for chemo brain.

00:22:19:04 - 00:22:21:06

And botanical herbs

00:22:21:06 - 00:22:23:17

for other immune system. And so on.

00:22:23:17 - 00:22:24:13

So the second line

00:22:24:13 - 00:22:25:19

research is outcome.

00:22:25:19 - 00:22:27:16

So we're trying to implement

00:22:27:16 - 00:22:30:01

this whole person health index

00:22:30:01 - 00:22:31:11

to patients.

00:22:31:11 - 00:22:32:22

This is a nine question

00:22:32:22 - 00:22:34:10

asking you about the things

00:22:34:10 - 00:22:35:17

I just mentioned

00:22:35:17 - 00:22:36:16

like diet exercise

00:22:36:16 - 00:22:38:15

stress social and so on.

00:22:38:15 - 00:22:41:10

And we want to collect this data

00:22:41:10 - 00:22:42:05

and track them

00:22:42:05 - 00:22:44:06

throughout their cancer course

00:22:44:06 - 00:22:46:10

and see whether what we're doing

00:22:46:10 - 00:22:47:23

improve their health

00:22:47:23 - 00:22:49:10

that the whole person level,

00:22:49:10 - 00:22:50:13

not just, oh,

00:22:50:13 - 00:22:52:01

are we reducing your pain?

00:22:52:01 - 00:22:53:02

We actually look at

00:22:53:02 - 00:22:54:06

the nine dimension

00:22:54:06 - 00:22:55:08

of your whole person health.

00:22:55:08 - 00:22:55:18

Yeah.

00:22:55:18 - 00:22:58:02

So, so that'll be a direction

00:22:58:02 - 00:23:01:01

of the research. Later, we can

00:23:01:03 - 00:23:02:01

find what

00:23:02:01 - 00:23:02:23

therapy or what

00:23:02:23 - 00:23:03:23

package of therapy

00:23:03:23 - 00:23:05:17

would be the best for that. Yeah.

00:23:05:17 - 00:23:07:05

And the third line of research

00:23:07:05 - 00:23:08:11

is all natural products

00:23:08:11 - 00:23:09:18

or herbs and supplements.

00:23:09:18 - 00:23:11:11

There's a lot of concern.

00:23:11:11 - 00:23:12:15

Taking herbs together

00:23:12:15 - 00:23:14:03

with chemo may interact

00:23:14:03 - 00:23:15:02

with each other.

00:23:15:02 - 00:23:16:23

Some may interact, some may not.

00:23:16:23 - 00:23:18:07

But nobody know exactly

00:23:18:07 - 00:23:19:11

which one will interact,

00:23:19:11 - 00:23:20:08

which one is not.

00:23:20:08 - 00:23:21:11

If you look at the literature,

00:23:21:11 - 00:23:23:12

it's just all over the place. Sure.

00:23:23:12 - 00:23:26:01

So we are doing a systematic review

00:23:26:01 - 00:23:27:23

so we can offer clarity.

00:23:27:23 - 00:23:30:23

So later we can say, “This drug

00:23:30:23 - 00:23:32:14

this herb will not interact

00:23:32:14 - 00:23:33:05

with this drug,

00:23:33:05 - 00:23:35:06

this herb will interact with that drug,

00:23:35:06 - 00:23:35:17

Yeah.

00:23:35:17 - 00:23:36:21

and here's the data.”

00:23:36:21 - 00:23:38:14

So nobody will say, “Oh.”

00:23:38:14 - 00:23:41:04

They’ll say, “Okay, you’re right.”

00:23:41:04 - 00:23:43:17

So this is data evidence

00:23:43:17 - 00:23:46:12

driven clarity in the use of herb

00:23:46:12 - 00:23:47:23

together with chemo.

00:23:47:23 - 00:23:49:02

Because I think right now

00:23:49:02 - 00:23:51:05

every drug right, every

00:23:51:07 - 00:23:53:00

you know, Western drug has a

00:23:53:00 - 00:23:54:08

interactive warning, right.

00:23:54:08 - 00:23:55:08

This interacts with. Yes.

00:23:55:08 - 00:23:56:05

But the herbs are

00:23:56:05 - 00:23:57:01

they don't have that. Yeah.

00:23:57:01 - 00:23:59:01

Because the data is not complete

00:23:59:01 - 00:24:00:05

and also scattered.

00:24:00:05 - 00:24:01:22

So you're creating this. You’re making this.

00:24:01:22 - 00:24:03:19

It's our job to create it.

00:24:03:19 - 00:24:04:07

Unbelievable.

00:24:04:07 - 00:24:05:09

We'll have a database

00:24:05:09 - 00:24:07:06

hopefully also a handheld tool

00:24:07:06 - 00:24:09:10

for oncologists putting the

00:24:09:10 - 00:24:10:20

the name of the herbs and drug will.

00:24:10:20 - 00:24:13:08

So this will interact.

00:24:13:08 - 00:24:14:14

And I'll tell you the certainty

00:24:14:14 - 00:24:15:19

you are very

00:24:15:19 - 00:24:16:17

sure this is going to interact,

00:24:16:17 - 00:24:17:19

or we're not too sure.

00:24:17:19 - 00:24:18:04

Yeah.

00:24:18:04 - 00:24:19:10

So this will be a very good tool

00:24:19:10 - 00:24:21:13

for practicing oncologists. Yeah.

00:24:21:13 - 00:24:22:05

So obviously,

00:24:22:05 - 00:24:22:14

I mean, you're

00:24:22:14 - 00:24:24:01

at the forefront of this thing.

00:24:24:01 - 00:24:27:01

Not just you, but UCI Health.

00:24:27:02 - 00:24:30:10

Do you see this starting to be,

00:24:30:12 - 00:24:32:00

maybe adopted

00:24:32:00 - 00:24:34:19

unlike a daily basis by other,

00:24:34:19 - 00:24:35:11

you know, outfits

00:24:35:11 - 00:24:36:03

looking at you going

00:24:36:03 - 00:24:37:12

this Deng guy’s on top of this,

00:24:37:12 - 00:24:39:00

so we're going copy this guy.

00:24:39:00 - 00:24:41:06

So that's one of our goal,

00:24:41:06 - 00:24:44:12

our mission is to make it not only,

00:24:44:14 - 00:24:47:02

we not only demonstrate the efficacy

00:24:47:02 - 00:24:48:22

benefit to the patients.

00:24:48:22 - 00:24:49:07

Also,

00:24:49:07 - 00:24:52:03

we try to build a new cancer

00:24:52:03 - 00:24:53:05

care model

00:24:53:05 - 00:24:54:15

that can be implemented,

00:24:54:15 - 00:24:55:22

scalable model

00:24:55:22 - 00:24:57:16

that can be implemented by others

00:24:57:16 - 00:25:00:01

and used in other cancer centers.

00:25:00:01 - 00:25:01:10

Yeah. So that's our goal.

00:25:01:10 - 00:25:04:00

And we are embarking on that.

00:25:04:00 - 00:25:06:07

So a lot of things we're doing,

00:25:06:07 - 00:25:07:00

always have

00:25:07:00 - 00:25:08:21

this scalability in mind. Yep.

00:25:08:21 - 00:25:10:10

We don't want to just

00:25:10:10 - 00:25:11:07

treat one patient.

00:25:11:07 - 00:25:11:13

Yeah.

00:25:11:13 - 00:25:13:22

We make one patient better, great.

00:25:13:22 - 00:25:17:00

But to change the whole cancer care

00:25:17:00 - 00:25:18:02

we want to

00:25:18:02 - 00:25:21:12

develop, design, develop, implement,

00:25:21:14 - 00:25:24:10

investigate and deploy

00:25:24:10 - 00:25:26:08

disseminate this new model.

00:25:26:08 - 00:25:27:10

Yeah fascinating.

00:25:27:10 - 00:25:28:16

I mean really it's it's really.

00:25:28:16 - 00:25:29:13

That's so cool.

00:25:29:13 - 00:25:30:05

You're changing

00:25:30:05 - 00:25:32:07

you're changing the face of cancer

00:25:32:07 - 00:25:32:22

treatment, right?

00:25:32:22 - 00:25:34:10

I mean, you really are. The way

00:25:34:10 - 00:25:35:20

cancer is treated. Yeah.

00:25:35:20 - 00:25:37:19

Historically, is always just, you know,

00:25:37:19 - 00:25:38:17

cancer therapeutics.

00:25:38:17 - 00:25:39:06

We want to shrink

00:25:39:06 - 00:25:41:01

the tumor, get rid of tumor.

00:25:41:01 - 00:25:42:17

But there are a lot of other things

00:25:42:17 - 00:25:43:15

in the patients

00:25:43:15 - 00:25:44:19

that need to be taken care of.

00:25:44:19 - 00:25:47:04

Also, when you make them do better,

00:25:47:04 - 00:25:48:18

your ability to shrink a tumor

00:25:48:18 - 00:25:49:11

or get rid of a tumor

00:25:49:11 - 00:25:50:12

is also enhanced.

00:25:50:12 - 00:25:51:12

So then you're getting more success

00:25:51:12 - 00:25:53:05

as the as the one

00:25:53:05 - 00:25:54:00

shrinking the tumor.

00:25:54:00 - 00:25:55:02

You're finding better results

00:25:55:02 - 00:25:55:15

for your

00:25:55:15 - 00:25:56:04

for what it is

00:25:56:04 - 00:25:57:08

that you've even set out to do.

00:25:57:08 - 00:25:59:13

Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah.

00:25:59:13 - 00:26:00:06

How excited

00:26:00:06 - 00:26:01:10

are you just personally like,

00:26:01:10 - 00:26:04:00

as just, just, you, Doctor Deng

00:26:04:00 - 00:26:07:01

to be kind of right here, right now.

00:26:07:01 - 00:26:07:08

Right?

00:26:07:08 - 00:26:07:15

Like you're

00:26:07:15 - 00:26:08:15

living through this thing

00:26:08:15 - 00:26:09:08

that's happening.

00:26:09:08 - 00:26:10:11

Yeah. Is that exciting to you?

00:26:10:11 - 00:26:11:05

Very exciting.

00:26:11:05 - 00:26:13:09

So I'm so glad I moved here.

00:26:13:09 - 00:26:15:04

I used to work at,

00:26:15:06 - 00:26:16:04

in New York City.

00:26:16:04 - 00:26:18:23

At Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center.

00:26:18:23 - 00:26:20:07

So I moved here.

00:26:20:07 - 00:26:20:19

Number one,

00:26:20:19 - 00:26:22:12

I love the weather here, of course.

00:26:22:12 - 00:26:24:08

So I bike to work every day

00:26:24:08 - 00:26:25:08

back and forth. Yep.

00:26:25:08 - 00:26:26:03

And this is perfect

00:26:26:03 - 00:26:27:03

weather for biking. Yeah.

00:26:27:03 - 00:26:27:23

Because otherwise

00:26:27:23 - 00:26:29:20

it was such a waste right.

00:26:29:20 - 00:26:31:04

So weather is great.

00:26:31:04 - 00:26:32:00

And the environment

00:26:32:00 - 00:26:33:08

the UCI environment

00:26:33:08 - 00:26:35:18

because they're very open minded.

00:26:35:18 - 00:26:37:18

You know they're very supportive.

00:26:37:18 - 00:26:39:12

They are always open to new ideas

00:26:39:12 - 00:26:41:02

and try to develop something

00:26:41:02 - 00:26:43:02

that's paradigm shifting,

00:26:43:02 - 00:26:43:11

thinking

00:26:43:11 - 00:26:44:19

big rather than just,

00:26:44:19 - 00:26:45:07

you know,

00:26:45:07 - 00:26:47:12

improving things incrementally.

00:26:47:12 - 00:26:48:09

So I think, I mean,

00:26:48:09 - 00:26:50:10

a very supportive,

00:26:50:10 - 00:26:52:22

fertile environment for my career

00:26:52:22 - 00:26:54:02

and for the whole field.

00:26:54:02 - 00:26:54:06

Yeah.

00:26:54:06 - 00:26:55:16

Oh, I'm just so happy

00:26:55:16 - 00:26:56:15

and excited to be here.

00:26:56:15 - 00:26:57:15

Did you always know that

00:26:57:15 - 00:26:58:19

this was kind of the avenue

00:26:58:19 - 00:26:59:15

you wanted to take?

00:26:59:15 - 00:27:00:11

Like when you first started

00:27:00:11 - 00:27:02:03

studying medicine?

00:27:02:03 - 00:27:03:08

Did you know that it was kind of

00:27:03:08 - 00:27:03:20

this was where

00:27:03:20 - 00:27:04:09

it was going to lead you,

00:27:04:09 - 00:27:04:23

or did you hope

00:27:04:23 - 00:27:06:17

it would? Somewhat. Yeah.

00:27:06:17 - 00:27:08:02

Because when I was doing

00:27:08:02 - 00:27:08:20

my residency

00:27:08:20 - 00:27:11:19

at the University of Texas, Houston,

00:27:11:19 - 00:27:12:13

I was fortunate to

00:27:12:13 - 00:27:13:21

have a great mentor.

00:27:13:21 - 00:27:15:00

Yeah.

00:27:15:00 - 00:27:17:06

He's a so-called master of

00:27:17:06 - 00:27:18:18

American College of Physicians.

00:27:18:18 - 00:27:21:16

There are only a handful of masters.

00:27:21:18 - 00:27:23:11

So what he taught us is

00:27:23:11 - 00:27:25:02

when you look at the patients,

00:27:25:02 - 00:27:28:18

don't look at the medical diagnosis only.

00:27:28:18 - 00:27:29:17

Don’t follow

00:27:29:17 - 00:27:31:17

just what's on the textbook

00:27:31:17 - 00:27:32:16

and stop there.

00:27:32:16 - 00:27:34:08

You would dig a little deeper to see

00:27:34:08 - 00:27:34:23

what's happening

00:27:34:23 - 00:27:37:03

in the patient's life.

00:27:37:03 - 00:27:38:11

Because what they're doing

00:27:38:11 - 00:27:39:09

in their life

00:27:39:09 - 00:27:41:01

actually change their health

00:27:41:01 - 00:27:43:12

and medical problem.

00:27:43:12 - 00:27:44:02

For example,

00:27:44:02 - 00:27:45:04

I always use this example

00:27:45:04 - 00:27:46:07

because it's very clear, easy

00:27:46:07 - 00:27:47:15

to understand example

00:27:47:15 - 00:27:50:01

when we admit a patient overnight

00:27:50:01 - 00:27:51:03

coming in with congestive

00:27:51:03 - 00:27:51:18

heart failure

00:27:51:18 - 00:27:53:00

and shortness of breath.

00:27:53:00 - 00:27:53:18

So in the morning,

00:27:53:18 - 00:27:54:22

during the morning report,

00:27:54:22 - 00:27:55:19

we could do reports of this

00:27:55:19 - 00:27:57:23

master of internal medicine,

00:27:57:23 - 00:27:59:05

he will always asks us,

00:27:59:05 - 00:28:00:09

what's the diagnosis?

00:28:00:09 - 00:28:01:03

What's the problem?

00:28:01:03 - 00:28:02:12

What’s the diagnosis? Okay.

00:28:02:12 - 00:28:04:21

According to the medical textbook,

00:28:04:21 - 00:28:06:17

the problem is

00:28:06:17 - 00:28:08:05

shortness of breath, right?

00:28:08:05 - 00:28:09:10

The patient can now breathe

00:28:09:10 - 00:28:10:05

the diagnosis.

00:28:10:05 - 00:28:11:05

Congestive heart failure.

00:28:11:05 - 00:28:13:16

You have an organ failure.

00:28:13:16 - 00:28:15:19

And he said no, no, no, that's not

00:28:15:19 - 00:28:17:19

that's the that's the surface,

00:28:17:19 - 00:28:19:00

the diagnosis.

00:28:19:00 - 00:28:20:04

The problem is actually

00:28:20:04 - 00:28:21:19

the congestive heart failure.

00:28:21:19 - 00:28:22:15

The diagnosis.

00:28:22:15 - 00:28:23:16

The patient ate a lot

00:28:23:16 - 00:28:26:10

of salt last week.

00:28:26:12 - 00:28:27:12

Yeah, that's

00:28:27:12 - 00:28:28:10

the root of the problem.

00:28:28:10 - 00:28:28:19

Otherwise,

00:28:28:19 - 00:28:29:06

the patient

00:28:29:06 - 00:28:30:17

would have a borderline

00:28:30:17 - 00:28:31:11

heart dysfunction,

00:28:31:11 - 00:28:32:06

but will not go

00:28:32:06 - 00:28:33:20

into a congestive heart failure.

00:28:33:20 - 00:28:34:17

So he said

00:28:34:17 - 00:28:35:10

he always told us

00:28:35:10 - 00:28:36:16

to dig a little deeper

00:28:36:16 - 00:28:38:17

and know the patient's

00:28:38:17 - 00:28:40:01

as a person,

00:28:40:01 - 00:28:42:00

not as an organ or cell,

00:28:42:00 - 00:28:44:06

as a person in the context of their life.

00:28:44:06 - 00:28:45:17

What's happening in their life.

00:28:45:17 - 00:28:47:13

So I got a lot of influence on that.

00:28:47:13 - 00:28:48:11

And then when we start

00:28:48:11 - 00:28:49:12

to practice medicine,

00:28:49:12 - 00:28:50:04

we noticed

00:28:50:04 - 00:28:53:03

the current limitation is always,

00:28:53:04 - 00:28:53:17

you have a headache,

00:28:53:17 - 00:28:54:15

I give you a Tylenol,

00:28:54:15 - 00:28:56:04

you have this problem,

00:28:56:04 - 00:28:57:15

I give you antibiotics, sure.

00:28:57:15 - 00:28:59:01

But there are a lot more things

00:28:59:01 - 00:29:00:10

we can do

00:29:00:10 - 00:29:01:19

as healthcare professionals to patients

00:29:01:19 - 00:29:03:22

in addition to this very,

00:29:03:22 - 00:29:05:00

you know, linear way.

00:29:05:00 - 00:29:05:10

I love the

00:29:05:10 - 00:29:06:06

that's where I start

00:29:06:06 - 00:29:07:06

to get interest in this.

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:08:17

And then,

00:29:08:17 - 00:29:11:08

I was just lucky and fortunate

00:29:11:08 - 00:29:13:17

that at that time, this whole field

00:29:13:17 - 00:29:14:22

has started to pop up

00:29:14:22 - 00:29:16:09

Get some attention. And started to grow. Yeah.

00:29:16:09 - 00:29:17:01

And I just caught

00:29:17:01 - 00:29:17:20

the wave of this field.

00:29:17:20 - 00:29:18:10

Heck yeah.

00:29:18:10 - 00:29:19:15

And now you're riding that wave

00:29:19:15 - 00:29:20:03

I love it.

00:29:20:03 - 00:29:20:09

Yeah.

00:29:20:09 - 00:29:22:12

What advice we'll wrap on this.

00:29:22:12 - 00:29:23:16

What would you

00:29:23:16 - 00:29:24:20

what do you say

00:29:24:20 - 00:29:26:12

to someone who's maybe been

00:29:26:12 - 00:29:28:13

newly diagnosed, right? With cancer.

00:29:28:13 - 00:29:29:08

They're afraid they're

00:29:29:08 - 00:29:30:07

they don't know what's next.

00:29:30:07 - 00:29:31:08

They don't know.

00:29:31:08 - 00:29:32:01

You know,

00:29:32:01 - 00:29:33:03

really what tomorrow brings.

00:29:33:03 - 00:29:34:14

So the first thing I would say is

00:29:34:14 - 00:29:36:18

cancer is not one disease.

00:29:36:18 - 00:29:37:18

It's about 150

00:29:37:18 - 00:29:39:00

different diseases,

00:29:39:00 - 00:29:41:22

some a very poor prognosis,

00:29:41:22 - 00:29:42:21

some actually

00:29:42:21 - 00:29:45:09

totally treatable or curable.

00:29:45:09 - 00:29:46:10

So that's the first thing.

00:29:46:10 - 00:29:47:11

Most people,

00:29:47:11 - 00:29:48:08

when they hear cancer,

00:29:48:08 - 00:29:50:04

they think it's like a sentence.

00:29:50:04 - 00:29:52:02

In our day and age, most are

00:29:52:02 - 00:29:52:18

not right

00:29:52:18 - 00:29:53:21

before their early diagnosis.

00:29:53:21 - 00:29:54:20

You can cure them.

00:29:54:20 - 00:29:56:03

So that's the first thing,

00:29:56:03 - 00:29:56:23

you know,

00:29:56:23 - 00:29:58:09

recognize cancer

00:29:58:09 - 00:30:01:04

is not one single disease, right?

00:30:01:04 - 00:30:02:01

There's 100

00:30:02:01 - 00:30:03:16

more than 100 different diseases

00:30:03:16 - 00:30:05:04

with different outcome.

00:30:05:04 - 00:30:08:21

So you're less fearful. Number two,

00:30:08:23 - 00:30:10:19

learn some skills

00:30:10:19 - 00:30:13:08

to cultivate this ability

00:30:13:08 - 00:30:14:17

inside of you.

00:30:14:17 - 00:30:17:11

That you can deal with a stress.

00:30:17:11 - 00:30:19:07

You can deal with a stressor within

00:30:19:07 - 00:30:21:02

without being stress.

00:30:21:02 - 00:30:21:14

Stress

00:30:21:14 - 00:30:23:10

come for our reactions to stressors.

00:30:23:10 - 00:30:24:18

So we teach people

00:30:24:18 - 00:30:25:14

these mind body

00:30:25:14 - 00:30:26:20

meditation techniques.

00:30:26:20 - 00:30:28:04

And also there are other

00:30:28:04 - 00:30:29:19

behavior changes

00:30:29:19 - 00:30:32:08

that will make patients see, okay,

00:30:32:08 - 00:30:33:03

I have cancer.

00:30:33:03 - 00:30:34:19

We're going to deal with it.

00:30:34:19 - 00:30:36:12

But I don't think about... constantly

00:30:36:12 - 00:30:38:07

think about the worst case scenario

00:30:38:07 - 00:30:40:01

I may die and so on. Right.

00:30:40:01 - 00:30:41:11

Which is unlikely to happen

00:30:41:11 - 00:30:42:14

for most cancer.

00:30:42:14 - 00:30:43:08

But people

00:30:43:08 - 00:30:44:22

patients are not aware of that.

00:30:44:22 - 00:30:46:02

So we want to give patients

00:30:46:02 - 00:30:47:22

the tools, the confidence

00:30:47:22 - 00:30:49:08

and the specific measures

00:30:49:08 - 00:30:50:07

to overcome that.

00:30:50:07 - 00:30:50:21

Yeah.

00:30:50:21 - 00:30:51:21

Look, I've done a lot of these

00:30:51:21 - 00:30:52:20

with a lot of different doctors.

00:30:52:20 - 00:30:53:11

You're the first one

00:30:53:11 - 00:30:55:02

who has set a bedtime alarm,

00:30:55:02 - 00:30:56:11

get a hobby, play pickleball

00:30:56:11 - 00:30:57:12

and make some friends.

00:30:57:12 - 00:30:58:12

I mean, that's

00:30:58:12 - 00:31:00:11

that's a great prescription, doctor.

00:31:00:11 - 00:31:01:17

Very simple and cost

00:31:01:17 - 00:31:02:08

nothing for you.

00:31:02:08 - 00:31:03:16

I know, it's so great

00:31:03:16 - 00:31:04:20

and really,

00:31:04:20 - 00:31:05:18

congrats on

00:31:05:18 - 00:31:07:01

not only being here at UCI,

00:31:07:01 - 00:31:07:21

but like all the work

00:31:07:21 - 00:31:09:15

that you're pioneering.

00:31:09:15 - 00:31:10:15

Really. It's awesome.

00:31:10:15 - 00:31:11:17

It's just pleasure talking to you.

00:31:11:17 - 00:31:13:03

You're so incisive.

00:31:13:03 - 00:31:15:01

You always cut down to the

00:31:15:01 - 00:31:16:03

to the heart of the issue.

00:31:16:03 - 00:31:17:16

Well you're fascinating doctor.

00:31:17:16 - 00:31:18:21

Thank you so much, Doctor Deng.

00:31:18:21 - 00:31:20:18

It is Live Well. UCI Health.

00:31:20:18 - 00:31:21:10

Thanks for watching!